Originally posted by Abby Normal
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Pinchin Street Torso - who did it?
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Originally posted by Errata View Post
Fine. Most of us knew how to hotwire cars, so we didn’t take keys at parties. If you got drunk and passed out they would confiscate your boots and socks. As it was a gravel driveway at the apartment complex, that was sufficient to keep people from driving drunk. But a:I couldn’t Hotwire a car and B: the guy who took the boots and the socks went home before the rest of us woke up, so we were all trapped there for an extra day. So I decided to make sure my boots would not be confiscated again. Even if it meant cutting the laces off when I got home. Teenage logic.
i thought you got your boots stolen because its a rough crowd/ bad part of town lol.
either way still hilarious.
ok two of the torsos had vaginas cut as part of the mutilations (i forgot which omes, but pretty sure pinchin was one) but apparently the debate is if it was intentional or not. one instance i would say ok unintentional, but two, not so much.
whats of amazing coincidence is the the tottenham torso head was found and her face was mutilated almost exactly like kate eddowes.
what say you about that?
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Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
ill tell you if you tell me about your boots.lol
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Originally posted by Errata View Post
privates targeted? On purpose? When?
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Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
that's a lot of "interpretation"- from both of us, so if you want to just look at the plain cold hard facts of points of similarity:
same time frame
same general location
same victimology
all post mortem mutilation
knife used
ruse used to get victims where he wants them
faces targeted
vertical gashes to midsection
stomach flesh removed in sections
internal organs removed
privates targeted
rings removed
left in odd and shocking public places
huge risks involved
both series end same time
unsolved
of course they could still be two post mortem mutilators operating in the same place at the same time targeting unfortunates, but with this and all the other similarities I find it too much of a coincidence and lean heavily they were the same man-the torsoripper.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
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Originally posted by Fiver View PostI don't understand why so many votes think the Ripper and the Torso Killer are the same person.
* The Ripper killings had a strong emotional content based on the excessive mutilations. The Torso Killer's cutting up the bodies appears to be functional, not emotional, done to reduce the bodies into pieces small enough to carry.
* The Ripper liked to pose the bodies of his victims and sometimes their persona effects. The Torso Killer did not.
* The Ripper killed his victims on the spot, as testified to by several police detectives and surgeons. The Torso Killer transported the bodies to where they were found.
* The Torso Killer disposed of his victims heads in a way they were never found, probably in an attempt to conceal their identities. The Ripper made no attempt to hide his victims' identities.
* Based on period surgeons' observations, the Torso Killer probably had knowledge of anatomy comparable to a butcher, while the Ripper did not even have that much skill.
* The Torso Killer appears to have operated over a significantly wider area and over a much longer time than the Ripper.
* The Ripper was much more of a risk taker because of the far more public locations of his killings and the time the Ripper was willing to spend at those locations doing more mutilations, taking organs, and posing the victims. Further evidence of risk taking is the Ripper appears to have been interrupted twice, appears to have killed twice in one night, and his continued killing in spite of the increased wariness of the general population, as well as increased patrolling by the police and the Whitechapel vigilance Committee.
* The Ripper liked taking internal organs as trophies. The Torso Killer took heads, and probably not as trophies.
The Ripper killings had a strong emotional content based on the excessive mutilations. The Torso Killer's cutting up the bodies appears to be functional, not emotional, done to reduce the bodies into pieces small enough to carry.
The Ripper liked to pose the bodies of his victims and sometimes their persona effects. The Torso Killer did not.
The Ripper killed his victims on the spot, as testified to by several police detectives and surgeons. The Torso Killer transported the bodies to where they were found.
The Torso Killer disposed of his victims heads in a way they were never found, probably in an attempt to conceal their identities. The Ripper made no attempt to hide his victims' identities.
not totally true.The totenham torso head was found and the face was mutilated in the same way as eddowes. the 1873 torso-the face was found, scalped off the head. so in either case the taking of the heads dosnt really point to hiding identity. something more is going on here.
Based on period surgeons' observations, the Torso Killer probably had knowledge of anatomy comparable to a butcher, while the Ripper did not even have that much skill.
The Torso Killer appears to have operated over a significantly wider area and over a much longer time than the Ripper.
The Ripper was much more of a risk taker because of the far more public locations of his killings and the time the Ripper was willing to spend at those locations doing more mutilations, taking organs, and posing the victims. Further evidence of risk taking is the Ripper appears to have been interrupted twice, appears to have killed twice in one night, and his continued killing in spite of the increased wariness of the general population, as well as increased patrolling by the police and the Whitechapel vigilance Committee
I think both series show a huge amount of risk. you've already pointed out the ripper risk. torso man took huge risks in killing in his own place, tying murder location to him, went to extremely risky measures in where and how he dumped torsos/ parts-the Tottenham torso, inside new SY building, pinchin. and the transporting to these places, having victims on his person for apparently long periods in public was incredibly risky. chancing being caught red handed just like the ripper.
The Ripper liked taking internal organs as trophies. The Torso Killer took heads, and probably not as trophie
to me the main difference, and its a biggee (and im surprised you didn't explicitly mention it) is that none of the ripper victims were dismembered, which is mainly why im only at about 80% they were the same man and not totally convinced. but as I mentioned, that could be due to the killers and the crime scene circs.
To me there basically the same-post mortem mutilator who enjoys cutting up women.
now that's a lot of "interpretation"- from both of us, so if you want to just look at the plain cold hard facts of points of similarity:
same time frame
same general location
same victimology
all post mortem mutilation
knife used
ruse used to get victims where he wants them
faces targeted
vertical gashes to midsection
stomach flesh removed in sections
internal organs removed
privates targeted
rings removed
left in odd and shocking public places
huge risks involved
both series end same time
unsolved
of course they could still be two post mortem mutilators operating in the same place at the same time targeting unfortunates, but with this and all the other similarities I find it too much of a coincidence and lean heavily they were the same man-the torsoripper.
Last edited by Abby Normal; 10-24-2019, 09:13 PM.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
Not more likely, no. But I would not rule it out as a clear and very real possibility. And such things must count too, or we are at risk of missing out very badly.
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I don't understand why so many votes think the Ripper and the Torso Killer are the same person.
* The Ripper killings had a strong emotional content based on the excessive mutilations. The Torso Killer's cutting up the bodies appears to be functional, not emotional, done to reduce the bodies into pieces small enough to carry.
* The Ripper liked to pose the bodies of his victims and sometimes their persona effects. The Torso Killer did not.
* The Ripper killed his victims on the spot, as testified to by several police detectives and surgeons. The Torso Killer transported the bodies to where they were found.
* The Torso Killer disposed of his victims heads in a way they were never found, probably in an attempt to conceal their identities. The Ripper made no attempt to hide his victims' identities.
* Based on period surgeons' observations, the Torso Killer probably had knowledge of anatomy comparable to a butcher, while the Ripper did not even have that much skill.
* The Torso Killer appears to have operated over a significantly wider area and over a much longer time than the Ripper.
* The Ripper was much more of a risk taker because of the far more public locations of his killings and the time the Ripper was willing to spend at those locations doing more mutilations, taking organs, and posing the victims. Further evidence of risk taking is the Ripper appears to have been interrupted twice, appears to have killed twice in one night, and his continued killing in spite of the increased wariness of the general population, as well as increased patrolling by the police and the Whitechapel vigilance Committee.
* The Ripper liked taking internal organs as trophies. The Torso Killer took heads, and probably not as trophies.
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Originally posted by Errata View Post
Not just serial killers are weird. I used to tie my boots on like I described above so no one would steal them if I passed out at a party. Because fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
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Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi errata
bingo! I remember the Richard Chase case and one of the victims had their entrails/intestines spread out amongst some tree branches and bushes and the investigators were absolutely confused why the killer would do something like that. when he was eventually caught and asked-it was a very simple explanation. He was curious and wanted to get a better close up look at them in the light.
and such is the case when a lot of these seemingly inexplicable things are done by serial killers.
who knows why these weirdos do the things they do, but makes perfect sense to them.
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Originally posted by Errata View Post
Hey, just because I can’t think of why a psycho killer would tourniquet a leg in mid calf doesn’t mean there isn’t a perfectly good reason somewhere. Or even a rubbish reason. It only has to make sense to one dude.
though I will say it looks exactly like the marks my long bootlaces would make when I wrapped them around the top of the boot, around my leg before tying them. Back in the days when I wore one pair of boots for a decade. If you were to fill that depression with blood, I think it might look reversed. Like something raised instead of something depressed. Like an optical illusion.
just a thought
Hey, just because I can’t think of why a psycho killer would tourniquet a leg in mid calf doesn’t mean there isn’t a perfectly good reason somewhere. Or even a rubbish reason. It only has to make sense to one dude.
and such is the case when a lot of these seemingly inexplicable things are done by serial killers.
who knows why these weirdos do the things they do, but makes perfect sense to them.
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Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
Absolutely, Errata. I agree that Kelly most likely would wear socks. It sunds eminently logical. Maybe it is a little less logical if she wore socks only on her right foot, but thatīs another matter - she very likely wore socks.
That, however, must not mean that what we are looking at must be a garter or the border of a sock, a lace or something. It can also be a ligature mark. I presented three pictures of neck ligature marks earlier, and we cannot reason that they are ties or necklaces, instead of ligature marks, can we? The habit of wearing socks cannot exclude how a ligature may have been used on Kellys leg, thatīs what I am saying.
If it is a sock cuff - and please observe that I am not saying that it cannot be, because it obviously CAN - then why is all that fabric fuss pointing upwards, towards the knee? Should they not point downwards? And if it is a sock cuff, where is the sock? Has it been cut away? With an even lining towards the foot and an uneven one towards the knee?
though I will say it looks exactly like the marks my long bootlaces would make when I wrapped them around the top of the boot, around my leg before tying them. Back in the days when I wore one pair of boots for a decade. If you were to fill that depression with blood, I think it might look reversed. Like something raised instead of something depressed. Like an optical illusion.
just a thought
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Originally posted by FrankO View PostThanks for the compliment - and for many different reasons, too! Now I really feel that Christmas is on its way!I will spend some time fortwith to take a look at that possibility, crossing my fingers for it being the case. And, of coruse, for you and me being able to persuade the rest out here to accept it...
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Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
Indeed it is - and I have seen interpretors taking it upon themselves to claim that there are no similarities worth mentioning inbetween the ripper and torso series, adding that those who claim there are such similarities fail to see that the incentives that led to what is wrongfully perceived as similarities simply must have been totally different. So I am kind of wary about the interpretation business.
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