Pinchin Street Torso - who did it?

[Fisherman]

The Pinchin Street woman also had her vagina opened by way of knife, actually. Though I don’t believe genital mutilatipn was any must on the combined killers list. I think it was about taking control over women by way of taking their bodies apart in pieces, and that a uterus, a kidney, a face, a thigh, a colon section or a liver would allow for that fantasy equally well. Any piece would do, although some pieces may perhaps have been more magical than others to the killer.

[Kattrup]

The thing that always stands out to me as to why I think the torso and ripper murders were most likely done by the same hand is the genital mutilation found on at least a couple of the torso victims.

Even if we accept the fact there were two serial killers overlapping in roughly the same area at roughly the same time - genital mutilation, which in and of itself is already extremely rare in serial killers, being present in two different killers in a similar area at a similar time frame is simply too great of a leap for me to make.

That's not me saying all the murders were all connected and related but questioning whether the Ripper was involved in these serial killings is a grossly ignored area of research that has for too long simply been written off as unrelated.

Hello Dane

what exactly do you consider genital mutilations on at least a couple of Torso cases?

I believe the only torso victim to have suffered genital wounds was EJ, whose vagina was divided by the cuts opening her belly. I personally do not believe such should be considered “genital mutilation” as it is clearly coincidental to cutting her up.

By your consideration, should you not rather believe the Ripper was NOT involved in the torso cases, because of the lack genital interest in those cases?

[Dane_F]

The thing that always stands out to me as to why I think the torso and ripper murders were most likely done by the same hand is the genital mutilation found on at least a couple of the torso victims.

Even if we accept the fact there were two serial killers overlapping in roughly the same area at roughly the same time - genital mutilation, which in and of itself is already extremely rare in serial killers, being present in two different killers in a similar area at a similar time frame is simply too great of a leap for me to make.

That's not me saying all the murders were all connected and related but questioning whether the Ripper was involved in these serial killings is a grossly ignored area of research that has for too long simply been written off as unrelated.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Al Bundy's Eyes

If you include the 1873/74 murders as part of the Torso murders, then I think having the two sets of mutilator murders overlap (ripper - torso) is much less surprising as the torso murders then spanned some 15 years or more. Also, I have been looking at the John Gill murder in Bradford and it appears there were two murderers who mutilated at the same time in that area (the other murdered a young girl).

I am of the view that the types of murder in the two serious are fundamentally different and committed by different people. Abby mentions some similarities, I recognise these but do not find these convincing when compared to the differences.

Jerry Dunlop and others have made a pretty good case that the girls and johnny gill murder were by the same person-I tend to agree. not the torsoripper though-geographic location and victimology points too probably not IMHO.

and the only real difference between torso and ripper victims is dismemberment, Which can easily be explained by killers circs.

[Abby Normal]

The 1873/74 murders really skew the timeline and progression, they really were extreme. The similarity that is interesting is that both killers wanted the victims to be discovered. The torso killer could have disposed of the body parts in a secretive manner but left bits out to be soon found. Apart from the heads. I reckon it's not coincidence the skull was never retrieved. And dumping a body on the site of the brand new police building? There's a ton of differences but I keep coming back to "what are the odds of two killers with such extreme tendancies being in the same place at the same time?"

yup bingo, and ending the same time.

[Abby Normal]

Interestingly, Abby, so far two people think the murder was unrelated to either series. Someone else was chopping up women and gashing them open?

yeah so apparently according to them we have three torsorippers. ummm no.

[etenguy]

The 1873/74 murders really skew the timeline and progression, they really were extreme. The similarity that is interesting is that both killers wanted the victims to be discovered. The torso killer could have disposed of the body parts in a secretive manner but left bits out to be soon found. Apart from the heads. I reckon it's not coincidence the skull was never retrieved. And dumping a body on the site of the brand new police building? There's a ton of differences but I keep coming back to "what are the odds of two killers with such extreme tendancies being in the same place at the same time?"

Hi Al Bundy's Eyes

If you include the 1873/74 murders as part of the Torso murders, then I think having the two sets of mutilator murders overlap (ripper - torso) is much less surprising as the torso murders then spanned some 15 years or more. Also, I have been looking at the John Gill murder in Bradford and it appears there were two murderers who mutilated at the same time in that area (the other murdered a young girl).

I am of the view that the types of murder in the two serious are fundamentally different and committed by different people. Abby mentions some similarities, I recognise these but do not find these convincing when compared to the differences.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

The 1873/74 murders really skew the timeline and progression, they really were extreme. The similarity that is interesting is that both killers wanted the victims to be discovered. The torso killer could have disposed of the body parts in a secretive manner but left bits out to be soon found. Apart from the heads. I reckon it's not coincidence the skull was never retrieved. And dumping a body on the site of the brand new police building? There's a ton of differences but I keep coming back to "what are the odds of two killers with such extreme tendancies being in the same place at the same time?"

[Harry D]

there are so many similarities between the torso victims and ripper victims. and Pinchin IMHO is one of the stronger ones as shes found in ripper territory.
But to me one of the major links, which pinchin also has, is the vertical gash on the abdomen. like most of all the ripper and torso victims, and McKenzie just a couple months before.

To me its like the Torsorippers first "kiss" once he has a victim down. wherever that may be.

Interestingly, Abby, so far two people think the murder was unrelated to either series. Someone else was chopping up women and gashing them open?

[Abby Normal]

there are so many similarities between the torso victims and ripper victims. and Pinchin IMHO is one of the stronger ones as shes found in ripper territory.
But to me one of the major links, which pinchin also has, is the vertical gash on the abdomen. like most of all the ripper and torso victims, and McKenzie just a couple months before.

To me its like the Torsorippers first "kiss" once he has a victim down. wherever that may be.

[Harry D]

*Ahem*

I SAID discuss.

[Harry D]

I'd be interested to know who people believe was the perpetrator of the Pinchin St torso.

If it was the same man behind the previous torso murders, why did he suddenly encroach on the Ripper's patch?

Was it the Ripper trying his hand at dismemberment, or did the two killers in fact have a shared identity?

Perhaps this was an isolated case that had no connection to either series?

Discuss.