Torso victims - a list

[Charlie]

Just a clarification: the source ("Seine de crimes," Editions du Rocher, 2015) only relates to the photo of the body at the morgue. The book doesn't provide any other significant information.

[Charlie]

On the photo below, taken at the Paris morgue in the hours following the discovery of human remains, one will note the glaring date error ("August 31, 1892" instead of "October 31, 1892"). This can be explained by the fact that, at the time, it was common to use abbreviations from the Roman calendar (which only has ten months) to designate the months of October-November-December: "8bre" for "October" (the eighth month of the year), "9bre" for "November" (the ninth month of the year), and "10bre" for "December" (the tenth month of the year). The official who wrote the caption for this photograph undoubtedly misinterpreted the date on an official document, transforming the notation "8bre" into "August" (the eighth month of the year according to our Julian calendar, which has twelve months).



Source: "Seine de crimes", under the direction of Philippe Charlier, éditions du Rocher, 2015.

[Charlie]

Note that, for the crime on Botzaris Street, the press immediately drew a connection with the crime of the Petit-Montrouge neighborhood (sometimes referred to on this forum as the "Paris Torso »: https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...e41#post629705), which occurred in August 1886 (and not in November as the mistake is often made).

Location where the body was discovered (the red star on the map):

[Charlie]

I'm taking the liberty to reactivate this thread to present another crime of the 'Torso Killer' type. It occurred in Paris in October 1892 at number 76 Botzaris Street, facing parc des Buttes-Chaumont (Buttes-Chaumont Park).
In the morning, a ragpicker named Eugène Angot descended into the cellars of this abandoned building to attend to a need. As he stepped on the last step, he stumbled upon a rather voluminous package. Inside were debris of flesh, sprinkled with sawdust and emitting a strong smell of phenol. They seemed to come from a young woman, aged 25 to 28, and were divided into twelve pieces, including:

• the two lower parts of the thighs, with the knees attached;
• two other pieces of the leg, including the calves and both feet severed above the calf, both at the same height;
• two pieces of arms including the humerus and its covering, with a complete dislocation from the shoulder to above the elbow;
• two other pieces of arms going from the elbow to the wrist;
• two pieces of the spine, each ten centimeters long, with a part of the attached ribs;
• two pieces of rib seeming to come from the upper part of the thorax.

In their headlines, French or English newspapers did not hesitate to link this new crime to those committed a few years earlier in London, even if, due to notoriety, they made the connection with Jack the Ripper rather than the Torso Killer.


Front page headline "La Presse", October 1, 1892:



Pall Mall Gazette Tuesday, November 1, 1892:

[Uncle Jack]

More interesting cases to look into. Only a small snippet of info for each case from this website, and they say:

"Kentish Town Child Murder, November 1887

A man was in the school-grounds in Leighton Grove, when he discovered the trunk of a fully developed male child. Police were called to the scene and a search in the neighbouring grounds resulted in the legs, hands and feet were found. They were all skilfully carved from the body, and this is now a case of child murder."

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"West Hampstead, January 1894

Between the stations of West Hampstead and Brondesbury on the Metropolitan Railway line, the dead body of a child was found on the bank. It was terribly mutilated and the head of the poor little mite had been completely severed from the trunk."

http://deathonmydoorstep.com/index.php/2018/03/04/camden/

[harry]

Parts of body found in Regents canal

[Mr Lucky]

‘A discovery of human remains was made at the Guildford Railway Station on Saturday morning. A man who was sweeping the station discovered a parcel containing a human foot and leg. The remains have been examined by the police surgeon, who states that they consist of a right foot and a portion of a leg, the flesh hanging therefrom having been boiled. Some of the flesh had been boiled away.’

Worcester Chronicle 1st Sept 1888

Was this considered to be connected to the torso murders?, I don't remember a mention of Guildford railway station before.

[towboydds]

Evolution

Hi Stan and Jack,

I always found the "Torso Killings" deeply chilling in their own particularly horrid kind of way and for somewhat different reasons than the murders attributed to "Jack". It seems, to me at least, that there is something rather more "organised" about them. Something considerably more cool headed, cold blooded and a good deal more calculating at work than the raging psychopathology that we see present in the "Whitechapel Murders".

Best wishes,
Zodiac.

So organ-ization (no pun intended) in the ""Embankment Murders" verses the un-organ-ized (pun intended) "Whitechapel Murders". The organizational effect of cutting each victim and removing internal organs, and the organized and premeditated effect of cutting external 'organs' (limbs) from the victims, has no corollary evidence or similarity?

The similarity should not be looked for in how it was done in order to associate with the Ripper Killings, but to see if there can be any style of organization, which is self evident, the only hurried organization was the double kill, yet still showed a perfectly reasonable semblance of organization.

Your Humble Servant
Darrel Derek Stieben

[Wickerman]

Well Adam, I would like to pass an excellent link to you which summarized The Thames Torso Murders of 1887-88.

You may already be familiar with this, but for those who are not...

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/thames-torso-murders.html

Regards, Jon S.

[Natalie Severn]

Differential victim presentation could be a factor of a killer external factor such as access to a space in which to mutilate. It could also be that the traditional 'Jack' killings represent a more unhinged state in the killers psychopathology. Dave

I am almost convinced that this was the case,Dave.
Norma

[protohistorian]

YS, I do not believe either was achieved. Dave

[YankeeSergeant]

Whitehall victim

Differential victim presentation could be a factor of a killer external factor such as access to a space in which to mutilate. It could also be that the traditional 'Jack' killings represent a more unhinged state in the killers psychopathology. Dave

I asked this question in the section on the "Moab and Midian" thread but have not received an answer. Was the WHitehall victim ever identified and was her killer apprehended?

[protohistorian]

Differential victim presentation could be a factor of a killer external factor such as access to a space in which to mutilate. It could also be that the traditional 'Jack' killings represent a more unhinged state in the killers psychopathology. Dave

[Zodiac]

Torso Murders.

Hi Stan and Jack,

I always found the "Torso Killings" deeply chilling in their own particularly horrid kind of way and for somewhat different reasons than the murders attributed to "Jack". It seems, to me at least, that there is something rather more "organised" about them. Something considerably more cool headed, cold blooded and a good deal more calculating at work than the raging psychopathology that we see present in the "Whitechapel Murders".

Best wishes,
Zodiac.

[sdreid]

Thanks Jack. I can't think of any more but others wouldn't surprise me. What sort of time frame do you think should be included, 1870-1910?