JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful.

[Fisherman]

Where is the evidence the torso killer made mistakes?

Where is the evidence the torso killer attempted something and failed?

The torso killer was well capable of amputations and also well capable of removing a skull from a head leaving the face and hair attached like a mask.

An utmost useless post, I´m afraid. Maybe he made a mistake when removing the head of Jackson, "Ooops, aimed for the foot and got the head!"

The point being that we cannot possibly KNOW whether he got it wrong. The logical thing to do is to accept that he could have. Equally logical, we may need to weigh in how the two series were performed under VERY different circumstances in terms of time, light and equipment.

That is why you have no point at all here. Keep it up and you will debate alone - I have little time for this kind of stuff.

[Batman]

The point being that we cannot possibly KNOW whether he got it wrong.

Yes, we can. A medical examination can know this.

[Fisherman]

Yes, we can. A medical examination can know this.

No, it cannot. It can only confirm whether or not a measure has been carried out in accordance with how it would/could be carried out ONCE WE KNOW THAT THIS WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE ONE CARRYING OUT THE MEASURE.

If I intend to cut your pinkie off but end up cutting your index finger off, all a medical examination can establish is that you have lost your index finger and that it is clear that the one who took it away knew how to do it or got lucky.

All we know in such a case is exactly the same we know when looking at your posting: there is something very much amiss.

[DJA]

Don't forget that the v-shaped marks on Eddowes's face may have been the result of an attempt to cut off the nose. Which would be another failure.

Henry ..... oops,Jack the Ripper has marked Eddowes' Maxillary sinuses.

He also laid a piece of intestine next to her body.

A kidney was taken.

Of course the nose was also cut.

That is actually significant in terms of her rheumatic fever and Gull-Sutton Disease.

Strep pyogenes enters the nose,infects the sinuses,makes their home in the intestines, infects the heart and eventually,the kidneys.

[Batman]

No, it cannot. It can only confirm whether or not a measure has been carried out in accordance with how it would/could be carried out ONCE WE KNOW THAT THIS WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE ONE CARRYYING OUT THE MEASURE.

In forensic pathology, you can be absolutely sure you have a gauntlet of examination results to run which do the exact opposite of what you claim they can't determine in your caps typing.

By examination of injuries to a body, it is possible to determine if an attempt has been made to do something and a failure of the attempt. Heck, we can even do this with suicides, let alone homicides.

As per my OP (stay on topic), JtR demonstrates amputation attempt failures but if you want to argue against that, then you still have attempted failures of other injuries inflicted. Even these question his experience... experience which the torso murderer(s) must have had because they were able to carry out dissections, amputations and dismemberments without these problems evident in the medical examinations.

Viola. The idea sells itself.

JtR would not waste time on mistakes and efforts that failed especially under the time constraint conditions at Mitre Sq., for example.

The Torsoman, if JtR, has amnesia for the C5.

[Fisherman]

In forensic pathology, you can be absolutely sure you have a gauntlet of examination results to run which do the exact opposite of what you claim they can't determine in your caps typing.

By examination of injuries to a body, it is possible to determine if an attempt has been made to do something and a failure of the attempt. Heck, we can even do this with suicides, let alone homicides.

As per my OP (stay on topic), JtR demonstrates amputation attempt failures but if you want to argue against that, then you still have attempted failures of other injuries inflicted. Even these question his experience... experience which the torso murderer(s) must have had because they were able to carry out dissections, amputations and dismemberments without these problems evident in the medical examinations.

Viola. The idea sells itself.

JtR would not waste time on mistakes and efforts that failed especially under the time constraint conditions at Mitre Sq., for example.

The Torsoman, if JtR, has amnesia for the C5.

It´s voilá, not viola.

But then again, none of your posts are voilà.

When a discussion becomes brainless, I leave it. It allows my opponents to say that I am leaving because I can no longer defend my stance.

In this case, I feel secure in saying that nobody but possibly you will draw that conclusion.

That´s not saying that I won´t debate the topic fortwith. It interests me, and I will, just not with you.

[DJA]

In forensic pathology, you can be absolutely sure you have a gauntlet of examination results to run which do the exact opposite of what you claim they can't determine in your caps typing.

By examination of injuries to a body, it is possible to determine if an attempt has been made to do something and a failure of the attempt. Heck, we can even do this with suicides, let alone homicides.

As per my OP (stay on topic), JtR demonstrates amputation attempt failures but if you want to argue against that, then you still have attempted failures of other injuries inflicted. Even these question his experience... experience which the torso murderer(s) must have had because they were able to carry out dissections, amputations and dismemberments without these problems evident in the medical examinations.

Viola. The idea sells itself.

JtR would not waste time on mistakes and efforts that failed especially under the time constraint conditions at Mitre Sq., for example.

The Torsoman, if JtR, has amnesia for the C5.

Wow. Forensic pathology is an minimum of 11 years study and exams here in Oz.

You have barely scratched the surface there.

[Sam Flynn]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689568/

Nose amputation throughout history in that medical article.

The deliberate, surgical removal of a nose or an ear might be classified as amputation - especially in articles translated from the Italian (L’amputazione del naso nella storia) - but we normally think of amputation as involving the removal of limbs, and it's defined as such in many dictionaries.

Lopping off the nose, or part thereof, as in the cases of Eddowes or Kelly, hardly constitutes amputation in the usual sense of the word. We might say that the torso victims had their heads amputated, but more usually we'd describe that as "decapitation".

To classify earlobe/nose-lopping or breast removal in the same category as cutting off an entire arm or leg is a big stretch, and not very helpful.

[Sam Flynn]

Strep pyogenes enters the nose,infects the sinuses,makes their home in the intestines, infects the heart and eventually,the kidneys.

I hope you're not suggesting that Jack the Ripper was a bacterium

[DJA]

I hope you're not suggesting that Jack the Ripper was a bacterium

Am suggesting that he treated Nichols and Eddowes for rheumatic fever from December 1867 at the London Hospital.

Ever wonder why Nichols moved next door to Eddowes soon after moving into the rookery?

Ever wonder why Eddowes returned seeking a reward?

Oh crikey! You don't think these women knew each other

Once all the facts are looked at,one finds they mesh together nicely.

[Sam Flynn]

Am suggesting that he treated Nichols and Eddowes for rheumatic fever from December 1867 at the London Hospital.

We've been through that before, Dave, but let's not start again here!

[DJA]

Usual selective reply.

Just ignore the facts.

[Sam Flynn]

Usual selective reply.

No. Just want to stay on topic.

[Batman]

The deliberate, surgical removal of a nose or an ear might be classified as amputation - especially in articles translated from the Italian (L’amputazione del naso nella storia) - but we normally think of amputation as involving the removal of limbs, and it's defined as such in many dictionaries.

Lopping off the nose, or part thereof, as in the cases of Eddowes or Kelly, hardly constitutes amputation in the usual sense of the word. We might say that the torso victims had their heads amputated, but more usually we'd describe that as "decapitation".

To classify earlobe/nose-lopping or breast removal in the same category as cutting off an entire arm or leg is a big stretch, and not very helpful.

There are many types of amputations. For example, partial amputations. As we have said, we don't need to use the term amputation to make the general point of attempts that failed with JtR's inflicted injuries.

Whatever way one tries to look at this, you have the attempted removal of some body parts with indications of failure to do, usually in the case of JtR, because the knife has struck bone rather than between the joints.

Even then a surgeon understands that if they meet bone and wish to get through bone, to use another instrument and method altogether. Yet JtR made the attempt in several ways with several body parts, sometimes with success and other times without.

We can rule out time factors because of Kelly, where he was uninterrupted. Eddowes was a time constraint and yet it is apparent some of that time has been spent making mistakes.

In this case, the coincidences of the knife on bone strikes across multiple victims, often in the neck area, as a result of overkill, shows he went further than he needed to go and that further was brought to a halt by bone barriers. Something Torsoman would have been aware of.

Not to mention how many cuts are jagged from neck to groin, again showing he really doesn't clearly have that much experience except if we consider he only learned as he went along with the C5.

Our learned Torsoman as JtR has blanked out on what he should know. There is way too much feeling around and attempting this and that to show he isn't working from past recollections as Torsoman. It is like that knowledge has been erased.

[DJA]

No. Just want to stay on topic.

I have done so.

More than you can lay claim to.