Torso Murders

[MsWeatherwax]

Personally, Fisherman, I think it's because he was a sadistic sexual killer and he enjoyed piquerism. I think he physically enjoyed finding new ways to cut, stab and slash. I really do think it's that simple.

[jerryd]

What do you mean by "ooops"? I stick to a time period for which there are historical sources.

1873 is a year lost in history?

[MsWeatherwax]

That is just one single variable. If you want some more variables, look in the forum.

Regards, Pierre

Well, I don't particularly Pierre - I'm afraid I'm one of the 'we'll never know who he is' crew so I'm not all that bothered.

My point is simply that you can't decide that he did not know the victims because he didn't hide their ID. It's a very sweeping statement.

[jerryd]

Well, I don't particularly Pierre - I'm afraid I'm one of the 'we'll never know who he is' crew so I'm not all that bothered.

My point is simply that you can't decide that he did not know the victims because he didn't hide their ID. It's a very sweeping statement.

Hi Ms. W,

Pierre is basing his statement on the point he thinks he knows who the killer is. However, he doesn't know for sure yet and his theory is evolving based on the historical facts he learns as he goes along.

My point was more that the C-5 were probably women that were identifiable. The C-4 torsos were not. Would this point to different killers, or an underlying reason for the difference in choice of victims if it were the same killer?

[MsWeatherwax]

Hi Ms. W,

Pierre is basing his statement on the point he thinks he knows who the killer is. However, he doesn't know for sure yet and his theory is evolving based on the historical facts he learns as he goes along.

My point was more that the C-5 were probably women that were identifiable. The C-4 torsos were not. Would this point to different killers, or an underlying reason for the difference in choice of victims if it were the same killer.

Hi Jerry.

Yes, I know Pierre has a favoured suspect. However, it's annoying when someone makes a blanket state as fact, regardless of who they are or who their suspect is.

In my opinion, it could mean either. I think the obvious conclusion is that it is two different killers, but I don't think that you can rule out the possibility that it is the same killer working under different circumstances. Perhaps the torso murders were committed while he had access to a shop, workshop or private lodgings. Perhaps he always had this access, but someone was present when the Whitechapel murders occurred, so he did not have privacy to work. Maybe he was unable to persuade the women he killed in Whitechapel to come with him, but his urge to kill was so strong he went ahead anyway.

[jerryd]

Maybe he was unable to persuade the women he killed in Whitechapel to come with him, but his urge to kill was so strong he went ahead anyway.

Such as Liz Stride?

[Pierre]

1873 is a year lost in history?

Sources relevant for the case of Jack the Ripper.

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Sources relevant for the case of Jack the Ripper.

Regards, Pierre

Wasn't your suspect about age 19 in 1873?

[Fisherman]

Personally, Fisherman, I think it's because he was a sadistic sexual killer and he enjoyed piquerism. I think he physically enjoyed finding new ways to cut, stab and slash. I really do think it's that simple.

Personally, I think he worked to a scheme, if you will. I don´t think he started out with no plan for the cutting, on the contrary. To me, the Kelly deed is the one where he managed to fulfil the scheme, more or less.

So I think it is a lot more complicated than you do!

[Pierre]

Hi Robert,

I looked awhile back at the Echo for that date and I don't recall that paper covering the inquest of Tabram in that issue. I'll take another peek though to make sure.

Hi Jerry,

Doing some reading about the Whitehall case I found this reference to the Echo.

Strangely enough it is dated 23 August 1888, the same date as the inquest.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18880823.html

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Doing some reading about the Whitehall case I found this reference to the Echo.

Strangely enough it is dated 23 August 1888, the same date as the inquest.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18880823.html

Regards, Pierre

The paper found with the Whitehall torso was dated the 24th of August, not the 23rd. That's why I was looking in that issue. Nothing on the Tabram inquest appeared. Unless I missed it.

[Pierre]

The paper found with the Whitehall torso was dated the 24th of August, not the 23rd. That's why I was looking in that issue. Nothing on the Tabram inquest appeared. Unless I missed it.

Hi Jerry,

Yes, but the inquest was held the 23rd, so could the article about it have been published already on the same day?

Or maybe the reference on this site is wrong?

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Hi Pierre,

If IIRC, the Echo had three editions that were published at 3:00, 5:00, and 6:30 P.M. There intention was to focus on the laboring group of people so they didn't compete with morning edition papers. This is going off memory, Pierre so take it for what it's worth. I'll check later to make sure.

[jerryd]

This is the header from the 23rd of August article you referenced. It was indeed a 6:30 Special edition and covered the inquest from that afternoon.

[RockySullivan]

The last part of your post is exactly the answer I expected from one who supports this serial killer theory. I could say to you and those who support that serial theory that it is pure speculation.

The police of the day, did not link any of the deaths to the Whitechapel murders, nor did they think any of the torsos were the work of a serial killer. They were there, they had access to all the evidence.

Much play on here has been made about these flaps of skin, but not a mention by any victorian doctor that they were all cut in the same way as is being suggested on here and therefore point to the same person doing the cutting.

On the subject of cutting it is suggested that many of the cuts were clean cuts. Well there is a simple explanation- a long sharp knife, Go buy a joint of beef from the supermarket take it home and in order to make it go further cut it in half, with a sharp knife this is easily achieved with a clean cut!

Yes it may be pure speculation but when you have such a large number of verdicts being recorded as open verdicts you have to sit up and take note. If the bodies recovered were intact then the doctors would no doubt have been able to determine causes of death.

Lets hypothesise and ask if only 5% of those recovered bodies were dismembered, and females that amounts to 27 females, were they all murdered in that 12 month period ?

www.trevormarriott.****

Trevor, I have seen contemporary reports of the police investigating torsos as not only murders but the work of the Whitechapel killer. In fact there is one in this thread....smh