Torso Murders

[jerryd]

Hi Pierre,

If IIRC, the Echo had three editions that were published at 3:00, 5:00, and 6:30 P.M. There intention was to focus on the laboring group of people so they didn't compete with morning edition papers. This is going off memory, Pierre so take it for what it's worth. I'll check later to make sure.

[Pierre]

The paper found with the Whitehall torso was dated the 24th of August, not the 23rd. That's why I was looking in that issue. Nothing on the Tabram inquest appeared. Unless I missed it.

Hi Jerry,

Yes, but the inquest was held the 23rd, so could the article about it have been published already on the same day?

Or maybe the reference on this site is wrong?

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Doing some reading about the Whitehall case I found this reference to the Echo.

Strangely enough it is dated 23 August 1888, the same date as the inquest.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18880823.html

Regards, Pierre

The paper found with the Whitehall torso was dated the 24th of August, not the 23rd. That's why I was looking in that issue. Nothing on the Tabram inquest appeared. Unless I missed it.

[Pierre]

Hi Robert,

I looked awhile back at the Echo for that date and I don't recall that paper covering the inquest of Tabram in that issue. I'll take another peek though to make sure.

Hi Jerry,

Doing some reading about the Whitehall case I found this reference to the Echo.

Strangely enough it is dated 23 August 1888, the same date as the inquest.

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18880823.html

Regards, Pierre

[Fisherman]

Personally, Fisherman, I think it's because he was a sadistic sexual killer and he enjoyed piquerism. I think he physically enjoyed finding new ways to cut, stab and slash. I really do think it's that simple.

Personally, I think he worked to a scheme, if you will. I donīt think he started out with no plan for the cutting, on the contrary. To me, the Kelly deed is the one where he managed to fulfil the scheme, more or less.

So I think it is a lot more complicated than you do!

[jerryd]

Sources relevant for the case of Jack the Ripper.

Regards, Pierre

Wasn't your suspect about age 19 in 1873?

[Pierre]

1873 is a year lost in history?

Sources relevant for the case of Jack the Ripper.

Regards, Pierre

[jerryd]

Maybe he was unable to persuade the women he killed in Whitechapel to come with him, but his urge to kill was so strong he went ahead anyway.

Such as Liz Stride?

[MsWeatherwax]

Hi Ms. W,

Pierre is basing his statement on the point he thinks he knows who the killer is. However, he doesn't know for sure yet and his theory is evolving based on the historical facts he learns as he goes along.

My point was more that the C-5 were probably women that were identifiable. The C-4 torsos were not. Would this point to different killers, or an underlying reason for the difference in choice of victims if it were the same killer.

Hi Jerry.

Yes, I know Pierre has a favoured suspect. However, it's annoying when someone makes a blanket state as fact, regardless of who they are or who their suspect is.

In my opinion, it could mean either. I think the obvious conclusion is that it is two different killers, but I don't think that you can rule out the possibility that it is the same killer working under different circumstances. Perhaps the torso murders were committed while he had access to a shop, workshop or private lodgings. Perhaps he always had this access, but someone was present when the Whitechapel murders occurred, so he did not have privacy to work. Maybe he was unable to persuade the women he killed in Whitechapel to come with him, but his urge to kill was so strong he went ahead anyway.

[jerryd]

Well, I don't particularly Pierre - I'm afraid I'm one of the 'we'll never know who he is' crew so I'm not all that bothered.

My point is simply that you can't decide that he did not know the victims because he didn't hide their ID. It's a very sweeping statement.

Hi Ms. W,

Pierre is basing his statement on the point he thinks he knows who the killer is. However, he doesn't know for sure yet and his theory is evolving based on the historical facts he learns as he goes along.

My point was more that the C-5 were probably women that were identifiable. The C-4 torsos were not. Would this point to different killers, or an underlying reason for the difference in choice of victims if it were the same killer?

[MsWeatherwax]

That is just one single variable. If you want some more variables, look in the forum.

Regards, Pierre

Well, I don't particularly Pierre - I'm afraid I'm one of the 'we'll never know who he is' crew so I'm not all that bothered.

My point is simply that you can't decide that he did not know the victims because he didn't hide their ID. It's a very sweeping statement.

[jerryd]

What do you mean by "ooops"? I stick to a time period for which there are historical sources.

1873 is a year lost in history?

[MsWeatherwax]

Personally, Fisherman, I think it's because he was a sadistic sexual killer and he enjoyed piquerism. I think he physically enjoyed finding new ways to cut, stab and slash. I really do think it's that simple.

[Pierre]

Ooops.

What do you mean by "ooops"? I stick to a time period for which there are historical sources.

[Pierre]

That doesn't mean that he didn't know them Pierre!

What was he supposed to do with them to hide their ID? He could hardly sling them over his shoulder, then walk through Whitechapel with a corpse over his shoulder in order to dispose of them somewhere. He would never have had time to further mutilate them in order to make identification more difficult.

You simply cannot say that he didn't know them based on the fact that he didn't hide them.

That is just one single variable. If you want some more variables, look in the forum.

Regards, Pierre