Originally posted by Fisherman
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Originally posted by Fisherman
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Originally posted by Fisherman
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The common approach is to gain access to the body cavity, and the removal of organs, here we are specifically discussing the colon are we not?
The cuts I am talking about are the actual cuts to create and remove the flaps, and the cuts to remove the colon.
Two totally separate killers may have the same need to cut away flaps to gain access to the body cavity, it is certainly the easiest way to work.
With regards to the second point is there any need to have other examples?
Fisherman you obviously know far more about this than I, but can I ask how many other murders there are in the period say 1888-1900 where victim are disembowelled to the same extent, which you could compare these too?
The point is that lack of other similar cases does not prove a link, it may cause one to look carefully at the issue, but it is not sufficient in itself in my opinion to prove a link
Originally posted by Fisherman
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Coincidences of that type do happen.
Originally posted by Fisherman
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I feel you are missing the points I made:
1. Rainham and Hanbury street are coincidence.
Indeed the view that Chapman's cuts were skilful, in reality says the killer knew what he was doing, cutting the correct way, following a obvious procedure, such as opening the body up correctly, rather than just diving in.
2. A copycat could have followed the release of details in the Ripper series, hence my suggestion that the latter Torso's may have been copycats, but a suggestion is a long way from a fact.
It is possible that similar results came about by accident; I will however say that it is somewhat improbable!
3. The aim in both sets of murders was to remove organs and cut, to destroy the body.
While that is very rare, being rare does not prove the two are related, but it does mean we must consider the possibility.
4. The removal of flaps of skin suggests the killers of both sets of murders knew what they were doing, and while not essential that they were medically trained, they knew how to cut a body and the procedure used to gain access to the body cavity.
Did notice that had not made it clear that I consider them all to be murders, I see no other option in the light of the evidence.
Although my views obviously do not fit yours, they hold up medically, and that is my point.
I may well be wrong, it could be the same killer!
However at present, all I see is two sets of murders, carried out by persons who knew what they were doing when they cut.
unfortunately that does not even prove the same background and training, but it does suggest similar.
At the end of the day, is it possible they are the same kille for both sets?
Yes, of course it is possible!
Is it probable?
No that has not be proven.
I fear we will not agree on this at present, I need more to reach your conclusion.
Nevertheless all the best
Steve.
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