G'Day Tom
I know I've got detailed notes on it somewhere, I'll pull them out when I can and post, you may be right, but I seem to recall that it came from reports on the inquest.
Such a pity that so much is lost to us, the full transcript of the inquests would shed so much light I believe.
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Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim
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Originally posted by Lechmere View PostIt's not unknown for a serial killer early in his career to take different multiple weapons.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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Originally posted by GUT View PostG'Day Lechmere
As I read the evidence, if one person did the double event they had two knives that night.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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Originally posted by John Malcolm View PostI've always imagined the wound to the heart was the first one inflicted, causing death after she was rendered unconscious. The following wounds, probably with the same knife (again contrary to popular opinion), were more experimental. And yes, I understand the arguments against both views.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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G'Day Lechmere
As I read the evidence, if one person did the double event they had two knives that night.
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It's not unknown for a serial killer early in his career to take different multiple weapons.
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Originally posted by John Malcolm View PostI've always imagined the wound to the heart was the first one inflicted, causing death after she was rendered unconscious. The following wounds, probably with the same knife (again contrary to popular opinion), were more experimental. And yes, I understand the arguments against both views.
Mike
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I've always imagined the wound to the heart was the first one inflicted, causing death after she was rendered unconscious. The following wounds, probably with the same knife (again contrary to popular opinion), were more experimental. And yes, I understand the arguments against both views.
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Originally posted by Jon Guy View PostAbsolutely, Tom, and not forgetting victimology and that the two victims, Stride and Eddowes were like sisters, in appearance and situation.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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Hi Michael,
As you'll read in my new book, there actually is zero evidence that Tabram was in the company of a soldier, so that theory is out the window. Also, Tabram was unconscious before she was stabbed. There were not defensive wounds on her arms.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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In the case of Stride, her single artery severance may well be the significant differentiator, in that the double artery cuts made on Mary Ann and Annie might have been to maximize the rate of blood loss to enable less sloppy field surgery and less volume within the individual organs targeted. There is also the possibility, since both of those double throat cut kills had evidence of nicks on the spinal column...decapitation may have been considered or attempted. There is also the issue of consciousness...Stride would likey have been conscious longer than the previous Canonicals....and would have bled out more slowly.
Martha Tabrams actual murder suggests one of two things when assessing the quantity of wounds...that she was hearty enough to keep making some movements as resistance or in reaction to a stab, which inspired the killer to keep on stabbing until she finally slumps....or that the stabs were delivered so rapidly and so comprehensively... when considering the major organs damage, that the overall length of time needed to stab that many times was minimized.
Interesting that soldiers are trained to stab in the body's most vulnerable locations and to target major organs like the liver and kidneys.
In this murder we have evidence the woman was in the company of a soldier at one point before her murder, and that soldiers were about as a result of the Bank Holiday....allowed to wear short swords and bayonets. When considering that single larger wound and Killeens remarks it isnt a stretch to imagine she fell victim to a drunken soldier in a rage, and that soldier, or a mate, made that larger wound in an attempt to end the assault on the body. She would certainly die after that stab...even if somehow still alive after the pen knife stabs.
Not ripperish in the slightest though...it can only be considered if your of the opinion that a serial killer rapidly evolved based on that assault.
Cheers
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Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View PostWhile it's of course possible for two stranger killers to attack at the same time in the same area, it virtually never happens. And then for the two killers to kill in the same way compounds those odds even more. And then for them both to be so efficient...at some point coincidence just stops being a viable alternative.
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G'Day Sunbury
Welcome on board I hope you have a ripping good time here.
So if there are two how astronomical the odds on three?
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Originally posted by GUT View PostG'Day Sam
But the stats show less thab 20 in 1888, so in fact they were uncommon, and so far I can not find another night in 1888 in Whitechapel with two or more murders. I'd love to be shown wrong on this, but so far that's what the figurse are saying to me.
Stats can be misleading. The chances of two killers is improbable not impossible. After all there was another psychotic serial killer of women in London over the same period of the JtR. What are the statistical odds of that happening?
I refer to the Thames Torso Killer, butchering 4 women from 1887-1889 close to the same area as JtR. Because the bodies were never identified (their heads never found) they never got their 15 minutes of fame in the papers.
http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...o-murders.html is a good read
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Originally posted by Sam Flynn View PostI don't think that the guy who unzipped Catherine Eddowes later that night was going to be put off by a scarf, somehow.
While it's of course possible for two stranger killers to attack at the same time in the same area, it virtually never happens. And then for the two killers to kill in the same way compounds those odds even more. And then for them both to be so efficient...at some point coincidence just stops being a viable alternative.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
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