John Bennett Photo discussion (moved thread)

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  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Just for the record, I'm not challenging the Bennett photo at all. I'm sure it's exactly what John says it is. I'm merely challenging one of the suggestions that arose from it, that being that Tabram was killed on an outdoor landing. As John seems to agree with me, I have no idea what AP is going on about. Except that misery loves company, so he's trying to paint me with his own brush. What happened to being a lone gun, AP?

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

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  • robhouse
    replied
    "Judging from the pitch of the part of the staircase that's visible, it looks to me as though each left-hand flight of stairs went right up to the floor above - in which case there would simply have been a passageway on the right, not a half-flight of stairs."

    I think I had been assuming that this black diagonal thing in the right 1st floor archway was a hand railing going down a set of stairs..

    Colin, I am not sure about the concrete galleries... I assume you are suggesting that the concrete may have had stone flags in it? In any case, Hewitt said "I saw the poor woman lying on the stone staircase." I am not sure what I think now.

    RH
    Attached Files

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  • John Bennett
    replied
    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    * I don't know the date of the survey; but it pre-dates the 1894 OS, which depicts the ground-floor addition, seen on the left side of John's photograph.
    Colin, I believe this Goad map is from 1890.

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  • Ally
    replied
    Originally posted by Cap'n Jack View Post
    No, Ally, I'm simply saying that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
    No you aren't. You are STILL continuing to lie and trying to make it seem like the only reason you got into trouble was because you challenged the authenticity. If Tom accuses John of hoaxing the photo, then we are discussing the same sauce. Until then, you are trying to make a completely dissimilar situation appear to be the same to cover your own ass and continue to perpetuate the myth that you were merely questioning the accuracy and not what you actually did, which was accuse someone of a hoax.

    Quit trying to pretend you were some innocent victim. You accused Phil of hoaxing the photo. Tom has done no such thing.

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by robhouse View Post
    ... I am supposing that the balcony was made of wood.

    Goad Fire Insurance Survey*

    "Concrete Galleries"

    Also; George Yard Buildings would appear to have been just that: Three 'buildings', separated by two 'firewalls'. The only means of inter-access would appear to have been the 'galleries'.

    * I don't know the date of the survey; but it pre-dates the 1894 OS, which depicts the ground-floor addition, seen on the left side of John's photograph.

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  • Chris
    replied
    Also, while the chimneystacks at the back of the building are immediately adjacent to the stairwell, it looks as if those at the front are displaced away from it. Presumably to make room for the doors into the flats at the front?

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  • Cap'n Jack
    replied
    'Still attempting to lie about the situation AP?'

    No, Ally, I'm simply saying that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

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  • Magpie
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris View Post
    Judging from the pitch of the part of the staircase that's visible, it looks to me as though each left-hand flight of stairs went right up to the floor above - in which case there would simply have been a passageway on the right, not a half-flight of stairs.
    That's sort of what I got from it, too.

    My great aunt used to live in a block of flats in Bethnal Green that was the simlar--you walked up a flight of stairs, the along a level landing to the next flight up. the outside and along the balcony until you reached her front door. Didn't put an elevator in unil the early '90's, neither.

    Almost unheard of here, but very common in the UK.

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  • Chris
    replied
    Judging from the pitch of the part of the staircase that's visible, it looks to me as though each left-hand flight of stairs went right up to the floor above - in which case there would simply have been a passageway on the right, not a half-flight of stairs.

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  • Monty
    replied
    John,

    The photo of the kid was not taken in George Yard.

    I think, and I mean think, it was taken in St Georges next door. Im not certain as to that but am that its not the George Yard Buildings.

    John or Rob Clack would be able to confirm the actual location.

    And Im not disputing anything Rob.

    Monty

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  • robhouse
    replied
    "When I was called this morning, shortly before five o'clock, I saw the poor woman lying on the stone staircase, with blood flowing from a great wound over her heart." - Hewitt in MA, Aug 8

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  • robhouse
    replied
    I assume by saying the "outdoor landing" you are referring to the actual balcony. Now I could be wrong but I am supposing that the balcony was made of wood. The Echo report of August 13 with Hewitt's remarks says that the blood was on stone... maybe there were stone flags on the balcony, I don't know:

    "There have been many visitors to George-yard-buildings with the rather morbid purpose of seeing the place where the deceased was discovered. Here there is still a large surface of the stone flags crimson stained. It is at the spot where the blood oozed from the poor creatures heart."... "Mr. Hewitt produced a foot-rule, and measured the distance of his sleeping place from the stone step in question; it was exactly 12 ft."

    I am wondering if the arched entrance to the stairs to the right (in the photo of the back of the building) went in for several feet before the steps started downward? This would provide a bit of additional shelter from the rain also... although obviously, the balcony above would also... maybe a bit drippy though.

    The photo of the kid seems to bear this out, unless I am mistaken. But what is the deal with this photo with the little boy. I thought I remembered hearing that it turned out not to be George Yard buildings after all...?

    RH

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  • Septic Blue
    Guest replied


    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    If the floor-plan of the adjacent St. George's House was designed with that of the older George Yard Buildings in mind, …


    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    … then each of the doors in John's photograph, opened into a suite of three-to-four apartments: Some being in the back of the structure, … others being in the front, and overlooking George Yard, itself.

    Such a floor plan would neither require, nor accommodate and additional stairway, in a building that had a depth of only ~24 feet.
    I cannot fathom a design that would accommodate ten apartments per floor; while cramming an additional flight of stairs and hallway onto each such level!

    Again; the building had a depth of only ~24 feet!

    ---

    Originally posted by robhouse View Post
    ... surely there must have been a landing indoors, right? Given the alternating directions of the stairs (toward the back balcony, then towards the front of the building) ...
    I have already addressed that issue, Rob; …

    Originally posted by Septic Blue View Post
    Because Tabram's body was discovered by John Reeves, as he descended the stairway; it is reasonably safe to assume that she was on an actual landing, as opposed to having been some distance along the first-floor ('second-floor' in North America) balcony.

    But, which landing?

    'First-Floor'; being an outdoor landing?

    Or …

    'Half-Floor'; being a sort of indoor/outdoor landing?

    I would venture to guess the former; … because of the fact that Francis Hewitt described the body as having been twelve feet from his door.
    … by way of my reference to what I have termed the 'half-floor' landing; which specifically in the case of St. George's House, provided access to all of the bathrooms, on a level that was between the ground-floor and the first-floor.

    ---

    I think age-old visions die hard!

    I certainly do not presume to know that John's discovery depicts the only stairway, to have been found in George Yard Buildings; but I am very confident that it does!

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  • John Winsett
    replied
    So the kid in the is at George Yard? I pictured that kind of landing for Tabram's murder. Very interesting.

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  • The Grave Maurice
    replied
    Originally posted by robhouse View Post
    Clearly, this landing is indoors, no?
    Makes good sense to me. Thanks, Rob.

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