How likely is she to have been a Ripper victim?

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up for this old skool thread

Some excellent points made



RD

[Astatine211]

hey guys,

when I said in the begnning I was surprised this thread didn't exist...of course, I was already a member of the old boards, but I was surprised that after the crash nobody reopened this thread because I think Frances is very tantalizing to look at...

On the other hand, if we look at her age, she is comparable to MJK. Strange thing that, because it seems reasonable that the Ripper normally murdered 40+ age prostitutes if we look at the C5. Kelly's death is sometimes attributed to a personal relation he had to her (lover etc). Then Mackenzie was 40 again and Coles remarkably younger. One might reason that the Ripper simply seized an opportunity when he slayed Frances Coles, but on the other hand, the C5 show clearly that he did not automatically take what fate brought before his blade. Otherwise, I'm sure, he would have had the chance to kill women younger than 40. So the solution would habe to be: Jack the Ripper (if he killed Frances Coles) must have had a relation to her as well, because she is outside of the group of people that is widely considered his prey.

The man in the cheesecutter hat tried to accost Ellen Callaghan first who was 52 years old. After being rejected by her, he subsequently accosted Coles who went with him. The cheesecutter hat man first choice being Callaghan over Coles fits with the ages of victims the Ripper targeted.

[Laurie]

I also do not believe that Frances Coles was a JTR victim. However, I do agree with Uncle Jack (or his brother ) in that it may have been a copycat killer at work here. I believe that it may have been Sadler, trying to make it look like it was JTR. I think this mainly because it is just to coincidental that Sadler was in that general area at the same time Coles was, and they had a fight that morning. It's just my personal opinion of course. I guess we will never know for sure. I have to say that every one of you bring up very good points on both aspects though.

[John Wheat]

No she was not a Ripper victim the Whitechapel Ripper murders ended in 1888.

[Pettifogger]

Always believed she was the LAST of the Ripper victims.

This would eliminate a lot of the [B]named[B] suspects if she was the final victim.

[protohistorian]

I wouldn't stop there, people were being killed in other parts of the world, maybe jack was not subject to the three dimensions everyone else occupies.

I am not opposed to the idea so much as the logic.

[protohistorian]

Yes indeed, the time span between murders was years at time, 8 years being the longest (from memory). I understand he mentioned that he 'took time off' to help raise his children.

So he say's, I am unsure whether Raders mind is capable of an "accurate " accounting, there are crimes in overland park that could easily match Rader.

[protohistorian]

Right..I see your point. For me Stride is pretty much a "given" because the time between the two Stride/Eddowes murders are so close the chances are small that it could be co-incidence.
Soo..If I know with over 90% assurance that Stride is a victim of JTR why wouldnt JTR do such a thing again?
One thing I personally never do is to look at the negative aspects or the differences when trying to connect murders. But on the other hand Im very unsure that Tabram/Mc Kenzie/Coles are JTR victims. That doesnt mean I will ever discount them. This MadMan was out there. He was never caught and no one has ever proven who he was. He could have committed all the offenses we think of as relating to the ripper. JTR will always be my top suspect for any unsolved murder in the general area. Even the torso killings.

Sooo...Even though I am far less sure of the "others" than I am of the so called C5 I could never outright dismiss them as McNaghtan seems to have.
Unless McNaghtan had special info on the others that has been lost and that proves beyond doubt that the others were killed by known persons then McNaghton has made a terrible error in my mind at least.

I wouldn't stop there, people were being killed in other parts of the world, maybe jack was not subject to the three dimensions everyone else occupies.

[Wickerman]

Personally i would say that MacKenzie was more of a possible Ripper victim than Coles,due in part to Sadler ...

That surprises me, MacKenzie was stabbed in the throat, twice in the same spot, and the abdominal 'cuts'?, were superficial at best. The pattern just doesn't surface.
Coles did at least have her throat sliced, but according to Dr Phillips the knife was drawn across L to R, then R to L, then L to R again. And the knife was not sharp. The killing of Coles was nearer to the killing of Stride than any other in the Whitechapel series.
As a rule its the differences that separate the killings, not the similarities that connect them.

[Lord Lucan]

From an American perspective, the BTK killer Dennis Rader- who is known to have had extremely powerful fantasies driving him- was able to contain his urges enough to put years between some of his killings.

Yes indeed, the time span between murders was years at time, 8 years being the longest (from memory). I understand he mentioned that he 'took time off' to help raise his children.

[halomanuk]

Personally i would say that MacKenzie was more of a possible Ripper victim than Coles,due in part to Sadler ...

[Uncle Jack]

As I am new to the forum, I look forward to discissing mine and others theories together but I shall leave that for another thread but one of my beliefs is that there was a "second Ripper", who, in my opinion, murdered McKenzie and Coles and probably murdered victims such as Mrs Woolfe. I also believe this second Ripper's first victim was Rose Mylett.

It seems my brother has been posting on this forum while I have been away from the computer. This view, as well as others posted on this thread, are not by me....

[Uncle Jack]

I also believe this second Ripper's first victim was Rose Mylett

Sorry, I meant first victim was McKenzie!! Don't know where Mylett came from! Lol

[Uncle Jack]

you mean "second Ripper" like in "Copycat Ripper"?

Yeah a copycat killer. Some suggest that McKenzie and Coles were murdered and that they're killers tried to made it look like Jack the Ripper had done it but it is my belief that a second serial killer started murdering prostitutes again, with MJK being the last of Jack's Whitechapel victims.

[Hellrider]

you mean "second Ripper" like in "Copycat Ripper"? Or do you want to say that the Ripper felt he head reached a peak after the Kelly murder, probably endured a personal crisis and then started out slow again. In that case, "second Ripper" would mean a completely changed Ripper