How likely is she to have been a Ripper victim?

[Mitch Rowe]

Guys,



I think these Ripperologists do so out of hand, without looking at the evidence as a whole.

Ive always found it odd those who accept Stride easily dismiss Coles simply because she doesnt fit with the timeline.

Look at the Stride murder and you are almost looking at Coles. A throat cut, possibility of the discoverer stumbling on the attacker, life only just escaping from the poor victim, the location, etc.

Marked similarities that would seem conicendental however I feel to look at one you must look at the other.

Monty

Right..I see your point. For me Stride is pretty much a "given" because the time between the two Stride/Eddowes murders are so close the chances are small that it could be co-incidence.
Soo..If I know with over 90% assurance that Stride is a victim of JTR why wouldnt JTR do such a thing again?
One thing I personally never do is to look at the negative aspects or the differences when trying to connect murders. But on the other hand Im very unsure that Tabram/Mc Kenzie/Coles are JTR victims. That doesnt mean I will ever discount them. This MadMan was out there. He was never caught and no one has ever proven who he was. He could have committed all the offenses we think of as relating to the ripper. JTR will always be my top suspect for any unsolved murder in the general area. Even the torso killings.

Sooo...Even though I am far less sure of the "others" than I am of the so called C5 I could never outright dismiss them as McNaghtan seems to have.
Unless McNaghtan had special info on the others that has been lost and that proves beyond doubt that the others were killed by known persons then McNaghton has made a terrible error in my mind at least.

[Jon Guy]

Hello

The most obvious difference between Coles` injuries and "the others" is that it appears by the injury to the back of her head that she was thrown down to the ground. Otherwise, she had her throat cut left to right while on her back and she was tilted away from the killer.

Although I don`t think Sadler was responsible for any of the other murders we are studying, as he was away at sea, he is a good shout for Coles murder. When picked up by the Police the next day whilst sitting in a Pub, he initially seemed resigned to the fact that he was going to be charged with her murder, and said as much to the officers.

Sadler is interesting.
The only person he would keep in touch with was his mother.
When he met up his wife,Sally, in Whitechapel, after a brief seperation, they strolled around the area with Tom keen to take his missus to one of the Ripper crime scenes.
Possibly innocent, lots of people keep in touch with thier mum`s, and eveyone went to view the murder scenes.

[detective abberline]

Sadler killed Frances Coles. He wasn't Jack even though the police were still looking for a suspect. He used a knife, yes, but he wasn't Jack. Jack wasn't seen everywhere with his suspects for the better part of 2 days. Jack stalked, he killed, he left.

[Jon Guy]

Jack wasn't seen everywhere with his suspects for the better part of 2 days. Jack stalked, he killed, he left.

Although I agree with the above point, it is worth noting both Nichols and Stride lodged away from their usual doss a few day prior to their murder.They could have been on a bender with someone, as Coles was.
Eddowes went awol on the day of her murder, turning up, out of her skull later that evening.

[revpetero]

stated that Frances went off with a violent man in a cheesecutter hat (whatever that is) .

A Cheesecutter hat is basically a flat cap


Peter

[detective abberline]

Although I agree with the above point, it is worth noting both Nichols and Stride lodged away from their usual doss a few day prior to their murder.They could have been on a bender with someone, as Coles was.
Eddowes went awol on the day of her murder, turning up, out of her skull later that evening.

Hi. Where they walked and where Jack prowled was a reasonably confined area. They were lost in alco benders most of the time, I would expect. They would wander away from their local doss but I'd guess always wander back.

[Pinkerton]

Sadler killed Frances Coles. He wasn't Jack even though the police were still looking for a suspect. He used a knife, yes, but he wasn't Jack. Jack wasn't seen everywhere with his suspects for the better part of 2 days. Jack stalked, he killed, he left.

Um...someone is a little too sure of them self. I can accept "Sadler MIGHT HAVE killed Frances Coles". I can even accept "Sadler PROBABLY killed Frances Coles". But I cannot accept "Sadler killed Frances Coles". Had it been a certainty the police would not have dropped the case. There are good arguments both for AND against.

[Uncle Jack]

As I am new to the forum, I look forward to discissing mine and others theories together but I shall leave that for another thread but one of my beliefs is that there was a "second Ripper", who, in my opinion, murdered McKenzie and Coles and probably murdered victims such as Mrs Woolfe. I also believe this second Ripper's first victim was Rose Mylett.

[Hellrider]

you mean "second Ripper" like in "Copycat Ripper"? Or do you want to say that the Ripper felt he head reached a peak after the Kelly murder, probably endured a personal crisis and then started out slow again. In that case, "second Ripper" would mean a completely changed Ripper

[Uncle Jack]

you mean "second Ripper" like in "Copycat Ripper"?

Yeah a copycat killer. Some suggest that McKenzie and Coles were murdered and that they're killers tried to made it look like Jack the Ripper had done it but it is my belief that a second serial killer started murdering prostitutes again, with MJK being the last of Jack's Whitechapel victims.

[Uncle Jack]

I also believe this second Ripper's first victim was Rose Mylett

Sorry, I meant first victim was McKenzie!! Don't know where Mylett came from! Lol

[Uncle Jack]

As I am new to the forum, I look forward to discissing mine and others theories together but I shall leave that for another thread but one of my beliefs is that there was a "second Ripper", who, in my opinion, murdered McKenzie and Coles and probably murdered victims such as Mrs Woolfe. I also believe this second Ripper's first victim was Rose Mylett.

It seems my brother has been posting on this forum while I have been away from the computer. This view, as well as others posted on this thread, are not by me....

[halomanuk]

Personally i would say that MacKenzie was more of a possible Ripper victim than Coles,due in part to Sadler ...

[Lord Lucan]

From an American perspective, the BTK killer Dennis Rader- who is known to have had extremely powerful fantasies driving him- was able to contain his urges enough to put years between some of his killings.

Yes indeed, the time span between murders was years at time, 8 years being the longest (from memory). I understand he mentioned that he 'took time off' to help raise his children.

[Wickerman]

Personally i would say that MacKenzie was more of a possible Ripper victim than Coles,due in part to Sadler ...

That surprises me, MacKenzie was stabbed in the throat, twice in the same spot, and the abdominal 'cuts'?, were superficial at best. The pattern just doesn't surface.
Coles did at least have her throat sliced, but according to Dr Phillips the knife was drawn across L to R, then R to L, then L to R again. And the knife was not sharp. The killing of Coles was nearer to the killing of Stride than any other in the Whitechapel series.
As a rule its the differences that separate the killings, not the similarities that connect them.