Coles - Ripper or not?

[Uncle Jack]

Poll to see about Coles candicy as a Ripper victim......

[smezenen]

With no undecided or inconclusive option I can not vote on this pole. There are simularities, an older probably drunk prostitute with a cut throat, and there are differences, dull knife, no sign of strangulation, and no abdominal mutilation. The differences in this case make it simular to the murder of liz Stride however after being denied time with the boddy of Stride JTR killed again on the same night. So If he killed Coles and was interupted before he could mutilate woulndt he have sought another victim that night as he did on Sep. 30, 1888? Its possible he did look for another and was unable to find one, but as prolific and skilled as JTR was at his bloody hobby I do not believe he would fail to find a second victim. There is also the time period between MJK and Coles, 2 years and 3 months. The next question this brings to my mind is if Frances Coles was a JTR victim how many more where there between her and Mary Jane? Or are we to believe that Jack took a 2 year break?

[Uncle Jack]

Well there was Alice McKenzie and Pinchin Street in between as well as Elizabeth Jackson. Of these three Liz Jackson is an unlikely but still possible.

[Tom_Wescott]

I thought I'd open this thread in case Monty and House Party decide they want to talk about the Stride murder, just to keep things even.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Apologies for taking the attention away from you Tom

Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

Damn right.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Rob,

Royal Mint had its own Police Station as such, so did the Docks. Edwards and Brogan was based there. Its near the Mint main gates.

Red Circle is the station house.

Red Cross is where Edwards see Sadler.

Now Lockharts, I believe, had two premises on Tower Hill. Both circled Black on this map.

Blue Cross is the site of Coles murder.

[Monty]

Rob,

Daily Graphic 4 February 1893

[robhouse]

Thanks Monty for the clarification...

[robhouse]

OK, follow up question... where is Sparrow Court? I cannot tell from your map, and my map doesnt have that section...


"PC Bogen - About 2 o'clock I saw him on the pavement opposite the Mint.

CORONER. - This is very important. Can you be sure about the time?

Witness. - Yes, the Tower clock had just struck 2.

Mr. Mathews. - Were you in the company of Sergeant Edwards, and did you notice any further injuries?

Witness. - Yes, a cut over the right eye and his face covered with blood. He said he had been assaulted down by the London Docks by some men. He had his hand on his right hip and said he had been kicked in the ribs. Sergeant Edwards walked away with the man towards the Minories.

Mr. Mathews. - When you left the man the last time outside the Mint, could he have got to Swallow-gardens without passing you?

Witness. - He could have gone up Sparrow-court into Royal Mint-street and then up Swallow-gardens. If he had gone along the Minories he must have passed me.

Mr. Mathews. - How long would it take a man to walk there from where you left him?

Witness. - It is about five minutes walk."

[Monty]

Rob,

Sparrow Corner circled in orange Rob.

[robhouse]

Thanks again Monty.

But is Sparrow Corner the same as Sparrow Court? Looks to me like the area you have circled is at the corner of Royal Mint St, right? Bogen said "He could have gone up Sparrow-court into Royal Mint-street."

[Nurse Sarah]

Hi all

Can anyone tell me if these places are still here today in London, if I was to retrace the steps?

Thanks

[Rob Clack]

Hi all

Can anyone tell me if these places are still here today in London, if I was to retrace the steps?

Thanks

The basic outline of most of the streets are still there but other than the railway arches, the Royal Mint and the hydraulic pumping station (I think that's what it is called) by Mansell Street it's all gone. A few buildings on Prescott Street are the same and there's a wonderful building on the corner of Prescott Street and Magdalen Passage which was the county court house is still standing.

This is an aerial view of the area from 1934.



Rob

[Nurse Sarah]

Thanks Rob, as ever, a fountain of knowledge!

The photo is very helpful.