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[YankeeSergeant]

Gangs

I can't quote you specifics but I remember reading that a gang or gangs including the Old Nichol(s) gang preyed on prostitutes in the Whitechapel area robbing tem and physically abusing them when they wouldn't or couldn't produce the requisite cash. Neil

[Roy Corduroy]

Hello Yankee Sergeant and David,

Good to hear from you, Sarge. There was an Old Nichols Street in Shoreditch, just to the north of Spitalfields. Here is the map location.

http://archivemaps.com/mapco/stanford/stan38.htm

Last year there was a discussion on this very subject here on Casebook. Stewart Evans (using the handle Grey Hunter) brought up a point concerning the Old Nichols Gang. Here is the thread.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=109

Roy

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Do we know about other prostitues "punished" in the same manner?
In fact, it does not seem a "punishment" (Emma said they have followed her, but they were not waiting for her).

Hi David,

Margaret Hayes, one of the witnesses at the Emma Smith inquest, claimed under oath that she around Christmas time 1887 had been attacked by a gang of men under the same circumstances as Emma Smith but got away and managed to survived.
(It has been suggested that her testimony may have been one of the foundations of the Fairy Fay myth).

All the best

[DVV]

Hi Glenn,
you're right, Hayes can be an example. The problem is that, as for Emma's case, we don't know if she has been injured by pimps, or if it was gratuitous violence.
Hope you are fine,
Amitiés,
David

[jsantos]

A gang of men!
The 4 option for me it`s more improbable.

[sdreid]

Smith's gang story seems a little suspect but, even if it's true, other serial killers have committed their first murder as part of a gang then gone on to kill solo so I don't understand the issue people have with that possibility.

[sentinel65]

Gang of men

I would vote towards the idea that Emma Smith was attacked by a gang of men. From what I have read about this crime there isn't any evidence pointing to the fact that this is the Ripper other than the fact that she is a prostitute, and it occurred three months before the Nichols murder. There was not even a sharp object involved in the assault. While there is the possibility that the ripper was in the group of men, there is still little to no evidence to support this theory.

[Cogidubnus]

Ditto sentinel65...as you say, the evidence certainly points that way! Welcome to Casebook by the way...

All the best

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Sentinel, welcome to the Casebook. I see you've been reading up on Smith. What are your sources?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sentinel65]

Hi Sentinel, welcome to the Casebook. I see you've been reading up on Smith. What are your sources?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thanks, I'm glad to be here. My source for information on the Smith case is 'The Complete Jack The Ripper' by Donald Rumbelow.

[Tom_Wescott]

The old 1970's classic or his 2000 and something update? We've had a lot of chatter somewhat recently on here about Smith, namely started by yours truly. A fascinating case.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sentinel65]

The old 1970's classic or his 2000 and something update? We've had a lot of chatter somewhat recently on here about Smith, namely started by yours truly. A fascinating case.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I read the 1975 edition, I wasn't aware there was a newer version by the same name.

[Tom_Wescott]

Yep, there is. I thought it was interesting and kind of neat that your first post here was on an Emma Smith. We never see that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sentinel65]

Yep, there is. I thought it was interesting and kind of neat that your first post here was on an Emma Smith. We never see that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Well I have been going through the Ripper facts before attempting to find a suspect, so I may easily build up my opinion on many of the mysteries of the case. The first mystery I'm analyzing is how many murders the Ripper committed, so I've been reading up on each victim in order to find the answer.

[martin wilson]

The Old Nicholl probably.
But, I have been reading about 19th century abortion and pretty gruesome stuff it is too.
Maybe,just maybe, it was an attempt at self induced abortion or botched by somebody else.
Perhaps the Doctors experience may have been that the type of injury sustained by Emma was not uncommon amongst women who had attempted abortion, could it explain his diffidence?
No witnesses, no arrests, only Emma's testimony to go on.although she did indicate one of her attackers was young,around 19 I think which would be more supportive of her story.
I'm 95% on the gang rape,but after reading about the kinds of things women were sticking up themselves there is a small 5% doubt.
All the best.