New Solution

[sdreid]

I wonder why the teenager was the focus of her description.

Too bad we don't have a picture of Smith. That would be quite the find.

[paul emmett]

Emma's story has never really added up

I seem to remember a discussion on the old boards that Emma had been spotted that day some distance away towards Mile End...

THE MORNING ADVERTISER says she was seen about 12:15 talking to a man dressed in dark with a white neckerchief "near the Burdett-road." But I can't find the Burdett-road.

[Sam Flynn]

THE MORNING ADVERTISER says she was seen about 12:15 talking to a man dressed in dark with a white neckerchief "near the Burdett-road." But I can't find the Burdett-road.

Burdett Road is way off East, shown in the top right-hand corner of this map, just beyond the red arrow:



The Ordnance Survey map on Casebook only covers the (approximate) area contained within the blue square above.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Paul

That's because it's a long way down. It was at the junction of Farrance Street and Burdett Road, where Commercial Road becomes the East India Docks Road, close to the Thames.

PHILIP

[Sam Flynn]

That's because it's a long way down. It was at the junction of Farrance Street and Burdett Road, where Commercial Road becomes the East India Docks Road, close to the Thames.

I should add that the part of Burdett Road shown in my map above snakes down further south-east towards the river, as Phil points out. It's just that I couldn't accommodate the southern end of Burdett Road without reducing the scale to the extent that useful, more familiar place-names (Hanbury St, White's Row, Goulston Street, etc) disappeared!

[paul emmett]

Thanks, Sam, Phil.

So she was seen quite far away from where she SAYS she was attacked.
And Dr Hillier says, "Smith seemed unwilling to go into details." And Mary Russell says that Smith pointed out the place where she was attacked en route to the hospital. How convenient. Where were you attacked? Oh--um over--no right uh---there.

It sure rings false to me, and it makes me wish we knew more about her white neckerchiefed companion.

Thanks again.

[Celesta]

Indeed it does, Celesta. At least it suggests that Emma Smith's account can't be altogether dismissed.
Hayes' incident, where she was attacked by a gang and 'barely survived' (which most certainly must have been the source of the so called 'Christmas murder' and myth of Fairy Fay) has always been the main reason for why I believe in Emma smith's story about a gang.
However, it still leaves the possibility that she elaborated about the location and the timing in order to possibly protect herself from retaliation. Her behaviour at the lodging house and her hesitation to go the hospital suggests that she may not have been completely aware of how badly she was wounded.

All the best

Yes, I think she could have feared retaliation, or, as Stan said, she might have been protecting someone, for some reason. The time differential between the time she said she was attacked and the time that she made it back to the lodging house is large. If she was attacked at 1:30 a.m., but did not get back to the lodging house until around 4 a.m., what in the world was she doing? So, I agree that something is missing from the picture. She could have elaborated about the time, the location, or both.

I'm glad you equate the attack on Margaret with the "Christmas Murder" of 1887 murder. I've felt for quite some time that it very well might be the origin of the story.

[sdreid]

I can't imagine that she could have been injured and in transit that long without someone seeing her, especially a cop.

[Celesta]

There were others in the area, including police, who didn't report seeing any roving gangs so that has to at least create some question even though it doesn't prove that there weren't any.

Regarding why she would protect someone, it may have been a person she had some affection for like a lover, a relative or a relative of a friend. I always wondered if the killer Margery Wren protected up until she died from his attack wasn't an illegitimate son. If it was, she had two possible reasons to protect him, one, because he was her son who she didn't want to hang and, two, because, being an elderly spinster, she wanted the life long scandal to remain a secret.

Maybe knowing that he'd caused his mother's death sent Jack fully over the brink.

Hey Stan, People have some weird motivations sometimes, as it is. Throw in scandal, shame, offspring and the other things you mention here and there's any number of things that could happen.

Like you, I have wondered why the 19 year old stuck in her mind. Was it his youth, do you think? It seems she would have seen any number of youthful offenders, doesn't it. Did he stick in her mind because he was the one who caused the fatal wound?

I tried to do one of those geneaology searches on her, but all the Emma Smiths I came up with were too young. Maybe some of the genealogy gurus have something about her. I just wonder what happened to her.

Best,

Celesta

[Celesta]

I can't imagine that she could have been injured and in transit that long without someone seeing her, especially a cop.

Ditto! A cop should have been able to detect someone acting out of the ordinary, as if in pain. If she was in a lot of pain, then I think it would have been obvious. The farther out from the time of the wounding the more pain it seems she would feel. Although, Glenn may have a point about her not realizing just how badly hurt she was, at least at first. I think her perception of it might have changed with time.

She was far away when Margaret saw her. I was looking at an old map of the area, the other day, and I was sure I was looking at the wrong Farrance St. Now, we learn it actually was a good distance away.

Do we have a medical doctor who posts on here?

[Jon Guy]

The time differential between the time she said she was attacked and the time that she made it back to the lodging house is large. If she was attacked at 1:30 a.m., but did not get back to the lodging house until around 4 a.m., what in the world was she doing?

Hi Celesta

Considering the extent of her injuries,and the fact that she was also very likely drunk, she may have just slunk into a corner somewhere until she felt strong enough to return home,or to stay out of the way of whomever attacked her. She had to press something between her thighs to soak up the blood, so again, her walk home would be a slow one.

[Celesta]

Hi Celesta

Considering the extent of her injuries,and the fact that she was also very likely drunk, she may have just slunk into a corner somewhere until she felt strong enough to return home,or to stay out of the way of whomever attacked her. She had to press something between her thighs to soak up the blood, so again, her walk home would be a slow one.

Hi Jon, I agree, but also wonder if her attack was a close to the lodging house as she said it was. I can see her progress back there as very very slow, and if she was far away, it must have been horrendously painful. If so, I continue to wonder why she was not spotted. Of course, she may have been. Any number of people might have offered aid. We don't know, and, as you say, she might have laid low for a time.

[sdreid]

She could have laid up for awhile but, if so, why didn't she tell that to anyone?

[Jon Guy]

She could have laid up for awhile but, if so, why didn't she tell that to anyone?

I guess because she wasn`t asked. She fell into a coma and died, so by the time it became a murder investigation it would have been too late.

[Celesta]

She could have laid up for awhile but, if so, why didn't she tell that to anyone?

I guess she didn't say more because the infection put her under so quickly. My dad lived less than a day when infection from his intestine was introduced into his body around a leaking feeding tube.