Elizabeth Jackson murder account

[Debra A]

Hi Stan,
I think it's because the 1891 case wasn't classed as a murder, but thought to be a suicide.
At the inquest, the jury returned an open verdict. The coroner told them it was their duty to assign probabilities and give a probable cause of death. The jury then gave the opinion that the body was found in the water , and there was no evidence to show how she came there.
The coroner said that sometimes the Home Secretary wanted statistics, so the jury might want to say she was probably drowned, and this was added to the verdict.


A woman who viewed the body at the mortuary thought it might be that of her sister who had been missing for a while and had threatened to drown herself, and this evidence was given by police at the inquest.

[Versa]

It seems like a couple of people at least have read what I wrote on the Jackson murder, does anyone have any ideas about the curious 'plugging' mention I found, at all? Does anyone know how it may relate to someone with marine or medical knowledge?

hi,

I have an idea about this, i thought that the murder would likely of had prior experience of killing and at times people lose control of their bowels at the point of death, the plugging could of been in order to stop a mess of bowel movements occuring? I think the Green River Killer also plugged his victims anuses for this reason. This also indicates a very experienced killer who is perfecting every aspect of his killing ritual.

[Dave O]

Thanks Versa for posting here, I had missed this thread and Debra's article. I haven't yet read this entire thread yet and I don't know if I've missed any others from her. I just wanted to say that I am glad to see Debra writing for herself as she has often assisted others with their work (I'm one who's benefited from her help). Enjoyed your article Debra.

[Debra A]

hi,

I have an idea about this, i thought that the murder would likely of had prior experience of killing and at times people lose control of their bowels at the point of death, the plugging could of been in order to stop a mess of bowel movements occuring? I think the Green River Killer also plugged his victims anuses for this reason. This also indicates a very experienced killer who is perfecting every aspect of his killing ritual.

Hi Versa,
Thanks for the idea feedback. Do you know where I can read further about this?
Since this post I have discovered from Victorian medical texts that this was one method used in abortion practices.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the feedback and kind words.
I keep threatening to write more, I'm just not disciplined enough to actually get on with it! I will have to go about it the Barbara Cartland method maybe, laid on a chaise, chocs and wine at hand, dictating my notes to someone else.

[Versa]

hi debs,

I'll have to do a bit of searching about cause i saw it on a tv program about one of the serial killers that strangled woman, i think he butchered them too, im not sure which it was at the moment though. I remember he stuffed their anus's with leaves though bcause he found they sometimes evacuated at the time of death.

I'll get back to you with a name

[Versa]

I'm 99.99% certain it was Arthur Shawcross (The Genesee River Killer), it was an interview with him talking about his crimes.

[Debra A]

Hi Versa,

Thanks for the info on Arthur Shawcross.
I've not managed to read much on him yet, but a couple of web pages on him that I did look at mentioned leaves stuffed down the throats of his victims and didn't go into detail about much else in the case. Can you remember the name of the programmme he appeared on?

I think we definitely have to consider that Elizabeth did die as the result of an abortion gone wrong. I fought against this idea for a long time until I discovered the plugging mentioned in the papers, simply because I believed we shouldn't jump to conclusions about the reasons for her death because she was pregnant at the time.

BTW, welcome to the boards, and thanks for your input into this.

[harry]

London,June 25, 1889.

The woman was of low character,and was in the habit offrequenting common lodging houses in Chelsea.She was last seen alive on May 31.The theory that she was a victim of Jack The Ripper is again revived.The police have abandoned the theory that Elizabeth Jackson was a victim of malpractice,and that her body was cut up in order to conceal the crime.
The first part of the dispatch speaks of the finding of the body,and identification through clothing and a scar.

[Debra A]

Hi Harry,
Thanks for that snippet.
The thing about the Elizabeth Jackson case is that a lot of the circumstances surrounding the mutilation of her body after death seems to have been covered up by police and press.

Bond, Hebbert, et al, did come to the conclusion that there were no signs of an illegal operation having been preformed on Elizabeth, and they were right in that there were no signs of instrument use, but the details about the 'plugging' mentioned in detail by only only one newspaper, mentioned briefly at the inquest but not in any great detail, and hinted at by Macnaghten in his memoirs, do make it appear like Elizabeth had been about to undergo some sort of process to bring about a miscarriage.

The thing is that this plugging would never have killed her, and there was no trace of any other method of bringing on a miscarriage having been used. One thing the doctors could not say for certain was whether poison had been used, as Elizabeth's windpipe, stomach and intestines had all been removed. This is the one abortion method likely to have brought on a sudden death.

Elizabeth's one time partner, John, or Smith Faircloth, also stated that Elizabeth had been unhappy with her pregnant state and had told him that she would 'shunt' the child.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Debs,
A very interesting case this one.Must read up on it again.
Thanks for the research.Anything anywhere on poison? Odd to remove organs that would give evidence of it!Did the Pinchin Street torso case have similar things removed do you know?
Cheers Debs,

Norma

[Debra A]

Anything anywhere on poison? Odd to remove organs that would give evidence of it!
Norma

Hi Norma,
In his book on the torso murders, R. Michael Gordon mentions the removal of these specific organs in the EJ case, and the evidence of poisoning that they may have provided. He uses the theory in his case for Severin Klosowski being the murderer.

The Pinchin Street victim had no organs missing, the Whitehall torso had some of the pelvic organs missing, and the Rainham torso had lungs, heart and other thoracic viscera absent and also parts of the small and large intestine.
There must have been at least one other torso type murder around the same time as these four too, as a woman's thigh was found in the Thames that didn't belong to any of the other Thames found bodies.

[Cap'n Jack]

Debs, as ever interesting and fundamental stuff you discuss here.
I'm a little wary of this 'wadding' business though, as a link I mean to an abortion, for is it not true to suggest that rectal bleeding asociated with pregnancy was a lot more common in the LVP than it is now?
Poor diet, long periods on their feet - forgive the pun - and a general lack of medical care and guidance seems to imply that this condition may well have been the norm.
My feeling is that this type of wadding to prevent bleeding from the anus at certain stages of pregnancy, especially around the six month mark, may have been a lot more common than we believe today.
As you know, I think poor Liz was the victim of a botched abortion, but I'm not so sure the wadding was part of that.

[Debra A]

Yes, AP,
I think it's good to look at all reasons why the 'plugging' may have been in use, it may have been an old fashioned , long forgotten treatment for the curse of piles during pregnancy for all we know. I did mention it could have had another use in the podcast, but I find it interesting that the only mention of such a thing I could find in Victorian medical texts was when used in abortion practices.

As you know, I think poor Liz was the victim of a botched abortion, but I'm not so sure the wadding was part of that

I'd be interested in your ideas of how you think this was brought about, AP.
What would you consider to have been the actual cause of death etc?

[Cap'n Jack]

'but I find it interesting that the only mention of such a thing I could find in Victorian medical texts was when used in abortion practices'.

Thanks Debs, but that could have more to do with the fact that they were dealing with dead bodies, the result of botched abortions.
The living would have escaped their interest.
I'll dwell on your thoughts and get back to you.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Debs,very helpful.I didnt know you were on a podcast---which one was that? I must listen to it!
Best