If Mackenzie was indeed a Ripper victim, which named Ripper suspects are eliminated?

[Stacker]

If we were to assume that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim, then that means that anyone who could not have killed her could not have been the ripper. Who among the named suspects would this include?

[Stacker]

Obviously, people like Druitt, Bury, and Maybrick who died before Mackenzie was murdered are among those who would be eliminated.

[Lewis C]

Obviously, people like Druitt, Bury, and Maybrick who died before Mackenzie was murdered are among those who would be eliminated.

Yes, those are three that couldn't be JtR if Mackenzie was a Ripper victim. Also, David Cohen and Hyam Hyams were locked up before she died. Frances Tumblety was in North America at the time. It's theoretically possible for Joseph Barnett to have killed Mackenzie, but it seems very unlikely that he would have been killing prostitutes after his girlfriend was dead.

I think that one's view of whether or not she was a JtR victim is a pretty important consideration in judging the strength of suspects. Certainly it is if one strongly believes that she was. If one strongly believes that MJK was the last Ripper victim, then the cases for Bury, Cohen, et al would be strengthened because then there would be an explanation for why the murders stopped.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Yes, those are three that couldn't be JtR if Mackenzie was a Ripper victim. Also, David Cohen and Hyam Hyams were locked up before she died.

Why is David Cohen - a raving lunatic - considered to be someone who could have been the Whitechapel Murderer?

He was admitted to Colney Hatch exactly four weeks after Kelly's murder, having previously been picked up somewhat earlier, mumbling incoherently in Yiddish.

Why did Martin Fido imagine that about three weeks earlier, he had chatted up Mary Kelly in English, and spent two hours mutilating her, before calmly leaving her room without anyone noticing him?

Why did the police show no interest in Cohen if he was such an obvious suspect?

If he was Swanson's suspect, how could he have been taken to the coast to be identified when the police knew nothing about him until he turned up rambling, and when he remained continuously in institutions thereafter?

How could he have been put under surveillance at his brother's house when no-one knew of any relatives of his?

If he was Macnaghten's and Swanson's suspect, why could they not get his name right?

[Lewis C]

I think that Fido felt that Anderson or Swanson mixed together information about Kosminski and Cohen, and the key was that Cohen was the only Jew from Whitechapel who had been put in an asylum soon after the MJK murder and died soon after that.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I think that Fido felt that Anderson or Swanson mixed together information about Kosminski and Cohen, and the key was that Cohen was the only Jew from Whitechapel who had been put in an asylum soon after the MJK murder and died soon after that.

If that is what Swanson did, then his suspect is not even a real person, but a hybrid of two people, one of whom was not even a suspect by name.

[Lewis C]

If that is what Swanson did, then his suspect is not even a real person, but a hybrid of two people, one of whom was not even a suspect by name.

Anderson said that he knew who JtR was, and Swanson said that his suspect was Kosminski. Aaron Kosminski is the only Kosminski that anyone has been able to find in a London asylum at the time, but some of what Anderson/Swanson said wasn't true of Aaron Kosminski. So I think we're left with 2 choices. Either make our best guess about what they got right and what they got wrong, or consider what Anderson and Swanson wrote to be not useful, and therefore ignore it.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Anderson said that he knew who JtR was, and Swanson said that his suspect was Kosminski. Aaron Kosminski is the only Kosminski that anyone has been able to find in a London asylum at the time, but some of what Anderson/Swanson said wasn't true of Aaron Kosminski. So I think we're left with 2 choices. Either make our best guess about what they got right and what they got wrong, or consider what Anderson and Swanson wrote to be not useful, and therefore ignore it.

Well, if their accusations against Kosminski are valid, then one can reasonably expect them to get their facts right and not hopelessly contradict one another.

As I have pointed out twice previously, the Whitechapel Murders case was not the only murder case in which Anderson made groundless accusations against Polish Jews - both of committing murder and of witnesses refusing to cooperate with police.

The accusations against Kosminski - a Polish Jew - are not based on facts but on prejudice.

[Scott Nelson]

Keep em coming with those sweeping statements. No wonder few people want to engage you.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Keep em coming with those sweeping statements. No wonder few people want to engage you.

I have challenged you about half a dozen times about your howler about Joseph Hyam Levy and you have never made any response.

Such a refusal to engage with me is hardly typical of members here.

Anyone can check my recent posts and see many normal and polite exchanges with other members.

You allege that I have made sweeping statements in my # 8.

Which part of what I wrote do you dispute?

[John Wheat]

If we were to assume that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim, then that means that anyone who could not have killed her could not have been the ripper. Who among the named suspects would this include?

Why would anyone assume that Mackenzie was a ripper victim?

[Lewis C]

I suppose the question was better phrased in the title of the thread than in the first post of the thread.

[Fiver]

Why would anyone assume that Mackenzie was a ripper victim?

* Throat cut with a knife.
* Body mutilated.
* Clothing pulled up.
* Victim's body lying on their back.
* Dr Bond thought Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.
* Commissioner Monro thought Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.

Points against are far less mutilation than previous cases and neither Dr Phillips nor Robert Anderson thought that Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.

I lean towards Mackenzie being killed by someone who tried to imitate the Rippers MO, but I don't think we can completely rule her out.

[jerryd]

* Throat cut with a knife.
* Body mutilated.
* Clothing pulled up.
* Victim's body lying on their back.
* Dr Bond thought Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.
* Commissioner Monro thought Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.

Points against are far less mutilation than previous cases and neither Dr Phillips nor Robert Anderson thought that Mackenzie was killed by the Ripper.

I lean towards Mackenzie being killed by someone who tried to imitate the Rippers MO, but I don't think we can completely rule her out.

Fiver.

I would add that not only was her throat cut once, but twice, as in three of the C5. The location of her murder was right in the heart of the Ripper crimes.

[Fiver]

Why is David Cohen - a raving lunatic - considered to be someone who could have been the Whitechapel Murderer?

* Best known fit for the Kosminski mentioned by Macnaghten and Swanson.
* Known to be violent.
* Murders stopped shortly after he was incarcerated.

Why did the police show no interest in Cohen if he was such an obvious suspect?

If Cohen was the man called Kosminski by Macnaghten and Swanson, then he was suspected.

If he was Macnaghten's and Swanson's suspect, why could they not get his name right?

They were writing years later from memory. For example, in describing Druitt, Macnaghten was incorrect about Druitt's age, profession, residence, and date of death. Compared to that, mixing up the names Kaminsky and Kosminski is a trivial error.