If Mackenzie was indeed a Ripper victim, which named Ripper suspects are eliminated?

[Fernglas]

That is one reason some people reject Mackenzie as a Ripper victim. But there are other reasons.

* There is far less mutilation.
* There is a much larger gap between murders.

These could be explained by the Ripper being ill. Or that the thrill was gone. Or that Mackenzie's killer was not the Ripper.

I lean towards Mackenzie being the last JtR kill with a knife and three more with poison. The gap between Kelly and Mackenzie fits with Klosowski being not in Britain and I theorise the thrill was gone since Kelly was his magnum opus as the Ripper. In addition he had started to feel the thrill poisoning others with a lethal poison that leads to a slow, horrible death he could witness. Antimon poisoning is one of the worst ways to go.

[Fiver]

Alice is not a popular choice of JTR victim because it discounts some house favourites and thus it would mean a lot of amazing minds over the years having to come to accept they were on the wrong track with certain suspects.

That is one reason some people reject Mackenzie as a Ripper victim. But there are other reasons.

* There is far less mutilation.
* There is a much larger gap between murders.

These could be explained by the Ripper being ill. Or that the thrill was gone. Or that Mackenzie's killer was not the Ripper.

[Fiver]

I am waiting to see your evidence that there were other Polish Jewish suspects than Kosminski.

John Pizer aka Leather Apron.

David Cohen.

[The Rookie Detective]

Alice was a JTR victim and the M/O used here is closer to a JTR killing than Stride was.

Alice was murdered between 12.40am - 12.45am and was likely disturbed by the sound of Andrews approaching.

Or the rain that started at 12.45am caused the killer to leave.

I think that one of the main reasons why ALice is often disregarded is because it breaks the illusion that the culmination of his crimes ended with MJK.

However, in reality, MJK was unlikely to have made him stop...but take a low profile for a while before resuming his spree and fulling his need to kill.


Alice is not a popular choice of JTR victim because it discounts some house favourites and thus it would mean a lot of amazing minds over the years having to come to accept they were on the wrong track with certain suspects.

If it hadn't started raining and/or Andrews hadn't disturbed him, then Alice would have suffered greater physical damage.

The relatively superficial ziz zag cut running vertically down to the naval was part of JTR signature and a way of leaving his mark on her body.


What i find interesting is that Alice was another murder seemingly committed within a 5 to 10 minute time frame between Police beats. It's almost as though the killer knew the routines of the Police and planned his attacks between the gaps.


Nichols and McKenzie bear some striking similarities

[Trevor Marriott]

I am not piling assumption on top of assumption.

There is no mention of Cohen or Kaminski in the police files.

Nor are they mentioned by Macnaghten, Anderson or Swanson.

Macnaghten could not think of a better Jewish suspect than Kosminski, who he said he was inclined to exonerate and was not even a real suspect.

That means he could hardly have considered Cohen or Kaminski, who were certainly Jewish, to have been suspects.

Swanson implied that Kosminski was the Whitechapel Murderer and referred to him as the murderer.

The only Polish Jewish 'suspect' mentioned by Macnaghten and Swanson is Kosminski.

Like theirs, Anderson's suspect is a Polish Jew who was incarcerated in an asylum.

Swanson made it clear that Anderson's suspect was Kosminski.

It is a reasonable deduction that Anderson's suspect was Kosminski.

I cannot think of a single valid point in your # 31.

I am waiting to see your evidence that there were other Polish Jewish suspects than Kosminski.

When it comes to categorising suspects researchers have always struggled to differentiate between a person of interest. a likely suspect, and a prime suspect

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You're piling assumption on top of assumption. Macnaghten mentioned three suspects. That does not mean they were the only suspects he knew about. Swanson agreed that Kosminski was one of Macnaghten's suspects - he never said that Kosminski was the Ripper or mentioned who he thought were the most likely suspects. Anderson didn't name his suspect and Kosmisnki was not the only Polish Jew to be a suspect.

I am not piling assumption on top of assumption.

There is no mention of Cohen or Kaminski in the police files.

Nor are they mentioned by Macnaghten, Anderson or Swanson.

Macnaghten could not think of a better Jewish suspect than Kosminski, who he said he was inclined to exonerate and was not even a real suspect.

That means he could hardly have considered Cohen or Kaminski, who were certainly Jewish, to have been suspects.

Swanson implied that Kosminski was the Whitechapel Murderer and referred to him as the murderer.

The only Polish Jewish 'suspect' mentioned by Macnaghten and Swanson is Kosminski.

Like theirs, Anderson's suspect is a Polish Jew who was incarcerated in an asylum.

Swanson made it clear that Anderson's suspect was Kosminski.

It is a reasonable deduction that Anderson's suspect was Kosminski.

I cannot think of a single valid point in your # 31.

I am waiting to see your evidence that there were other Polish Jewish suspects than Kosminski.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Macnaghten named two Jewish suspects - Kosminski and Ostrog. Unless he was deaf and blind, he also knew about Pizer as a suspect.

It is true that Ostrog was sometimes reported to have been Jewish and may have been Jewish, but unlike Kosminski, we do not know for certain that he was.

I am waiting for Wickerman to point out that what you claim is not a certainty or Elamarna to object that you know something which is not an established fact.

I am surprised you should have mentioned Piser.

He had been eliminated as a suspect and it would therefore have been improper for Macnaghten to have mentioned him.

Why do you?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Read period press accounts. A lot of people thought Nichols was the second, or even third murder in a series.

I was aware of that, but it is irrelevant.

My point was that the murder of Eddowes had not yet occurred.

[Trevor Marriott]

Macnaghten named two Jewish suspects - Kosminski and Ostrog. Unless he was deaf and blind, he also knew about Pizer as a suspect.

But MM is unreliable Ostrog could not have been a viable suspect because he was in prison in France at the time of the murders and MM should have known that before he penned his memo

Pizer has already been cleared by the time MM took up office

So MM`s memo is as about as reliable as the marginalia and the Ramblings of Anderson

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fiver]

If Cohen or Kaminski had been mentioned in them, Macnaghten, Anderson or Swanson would have known about them.

You're piling assumption on top of assumption. Macnaghten mentioned three suspects. That does not mean they were the only suspects he knew about. Swanson agreed that Kosminski was one of Macnaghten's suspects - he never said that Kosminski was the Ripper or mentioned who he thought were the most likely suspects. Anderson didn't name his suspect and Kosmisnki was not the only Polish Jew to be a suspect.

Macnaghten apparently knew of only one Jewish 'suspect' and it seems that only one interested Anderson and Swanson, and Swanson recorded that the one that interested Anderson was the same as the one that interested him: Kosminski.

Macnaghten named two Jewish suspects - Kosminski and Ostrog. Unless he was deaf and blind, he also knew about Pizer as a suspect.

[Fiver]

Piser had alibis for the murders of Nichols and Chapman, which at that time were the only murders in the series.

Read period press accounts. A lot of people thought Nichols was the second, or even third murder in a series.

[Lewis C]

I agree with you that Swanson was writing in order to back up Anderson and identify his suspect.

That means that Swanson was saying that Anderson meant Kosminski was his Polish Jew suspect.

The three suspects that came to Macnaghten's mind did not include Cohen or Kaminski.

Macnaghten expressed his inclination to exonerate Kosminski, the only Jewish suspect mentioned, who evidently was not an actual suspect.

Otherwise, Macnaghten would not have put the word suspect in inverted commas.

If Kosminski was the most obvious Jewish 'suspect' Macnaghten could think of, what evidence could there have been against Cohen or Kaminski that he was aware of?

If Macnaughten was aware of evidence against Cohen or Kaminski, I don't know what that would be, but just because I don't know what it would be doesn't mean that he wasn't aware of any. And if he wasn't aware of any, that doesn't mean that there wasn't any.

Is the question of whether the police had evidence against a particular person the same as the question of whether or not that person was suspected by police?

BTW, I don't suspect Kaminsky at all. I think the idea that Kaminsky may have been JtR depends on the idea that he and Cohen were the same person, and I find the reasons for believing that they were to be unconvincing.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'm not sure that writing years later, those three would have remembered everyone who was ever suspected. I also doubt that they would have written about everyone that they were aware of being suspected, especially in the cases of Anderson and Swanson. Swanson was only interested in saying who Anderson's suspect was, and Anderson wasn't interested in naming any suspects.

The three men that Macnaghten mentioned were three men that he believed were stronger suspects than Cutbush, not necessarily the only suspects that he was aware of.

I agree with you that Swanson was writing in order to back up Anderson and identify his suspect.

That means that Swanson was saying that Anderson meant Kosminski was his Polish Jew suspect.

The three suspects that came to Macnaghten's mind did not include Cohen or Kaminski.

Macnaghten expressed his inclination to exonerate Kosminski, the only Jewish suspect mentioned, who evidently was not an actual suspect.

Otherwise, Macnaghten would not have put the word suspect in inverted commas.

If Kosminski was the most obvious Jewish 'suspect' Macnaghten could think of, what evidence could there have been against Cohen or Kaminski that he was aware of?

[Lewis C]

If Cohen or Kaminski had been mentioned in them, Macnaghten, Anderson or Swanson would have known about them.

Macnaghten apparently knew of only one Jewish 'suspect' and it seems that only one interested Anderson and Swanson, and Swanson recorded that the one that interested Anderson was the same as the one that interested him: Kosminski.

I'm not sure that writing years later, those three would have remembered everyone who was ever suspected. I also doubt that they would have written about everyone that they were aware of being suspected, especially in the cases of Anderson and Swanson. Swanson was only interested in saying who Anderson's suspect was, and Anderson wasn't interested in naming any suspects.

The three men that Macnaghten mentioned were three men that he believed were stronger suspects than Cutbush, not necessarily the only suspects that he was aware of.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

If we don't have the records, then we don't know whether someone was mentioned in those records.

If Cohen or Kaminski had been mentioned in them, Macnaghten, Anderson or Swanson would have known about them.

Macnaghten apparently knew of only one Jewish 'suspect' and it seems that only one interested Anderson and Swanson, and Swanson recorded that the one that interested Anderson was the same as the one that interested him: Kosminski.