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McKenzie - Ripper or not?

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  • Uncle Jack
    started a poll McKenzie - Ripper or not?

    McKenzie - Ripper or not?

    63
    YES
    41.27%
    26
    NO
    33.33%
    21
    UNDECIDED
    25.40%
    16
    A poll to see Alice McKenzie's candicy as a Ripper victim? Simple YES or NO....

  • Herlock Sholmes
    replied
    Originally posted by The Baron View Post


    Bingo!

    Better he didn't join the force at all.



    The Baron
    More evidence of troll-like behaviour. Absolutely no attempt at joining in the debate but simply piping up with a stupid comment every time Macnaghten is mentioned.

    Get a life Baron

    Leave a comment:


  • The Baron
    replied
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    nah. the reason shes usually not included is because mcnauten didnt include her as a victim in his memorandom. which isnt surprising, since she was killed on his watch and part of his whole excuse for not catching the ripper was because he didnt join the force until after the murders ended.

    Bingo!

    Better he didn't join the force at all.



    The Baron

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
    I doubt that anyone would argue that Liz Strides murder more accurately represents what we consider a "Ripper" murder than Alice's does. The "ripper" is more than just a murderer, he has a style, a way of operating, that makes him seem like some whisp of smoke or fog. One that leaves ghastly scenes on the streets behind him. He might be that brooding guy in the pub with bloodstains on him, he might be that decked out toff trawling the streets, he might be that slaughterhouse guy on a break, or on his way home...no one was exempt from suspicion because no-one had any clues as to who this man was. Alices murder fits within that criteria. The reason she is excluded is usually either based on the time lapse in activity, a belief in the "institutionalized" stories, a belief he dies, or that he leaves the area.

    What cant be denied is that if someone who is not Jack the Ripper can also kill in a manner which strongly resembles Jack the Ripper, then can the Jack the Ripper model be trusted?
    nah. the reason shes usually not included is because mcnauten didnt include her as a victim in his memorandom. which isnt surprising, since she was killed on his watch and part of his whole excuse for not catching the ripper was because he didnt join the force until after the murders ended.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    I doubt that anyone would argue that Liz Strides murder more accurately represents what we consider a "Ripper" murder than Alice's does. The "ripper" is more than just a murderer, he has a style, a way of operating, that makes him seem like some whisp of smoke or fog. One that leaves ghastly scenes on the streets behind him. He might be that brooding guy in the pub with bloodstains on him, he might be that decked out toff trawling the streets, he might be that slaughterhouse guy on a break, or on his way home...no one was exempt from suspicion because no-one had any clues as to who this man was. Alices murder fits within that criteria. The reason she is excluded is usually either based on the time lapse in activity, a belief in the "institutionalized" stories, a belief he dies, or that he leaves the area.

    What cant be denied is that if someone who is not Jack the Ripper can also kill in a manner which strongly resembles Jack the Ripper, then can the Jack the Ripper model be trusted?
    Last edited by Michael W Richards; 07-26-2019, 11:33 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wheat
    replied
    I still think the gap between the C5 and McKenzie rules McKenzie out as a Ripper victim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

    After that he becomes a poisoner I suppose...then what, a politician?
    lol! good one

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    bingo
    which shows the ripper was progressing from stabber to ripper:
    millwood-stabbed (a little-survived)
    tabram-stabbed (a lot-killed)
    Nichols-stabbed and ripped (killed)

    serial killer escalation/progression 101
    After that he becomes a poisoner I suppose...then what, a politician?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Both Tabram and Nichols had a similar stab.
    bingo
    which shows the ripper was progressing from stabber to ripper:
    millwood-stabbed (a little-survived)
    tabram-stabbed (a lot-killed)
    Nichols-stabbed and ripped (killed)

    serial killer escalation/progression 101

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
    The Ripper was back. First he murdered Elizabeth Jackson around June '89. Went back to his old stomping ground and slew Alice McKenzie a month later. That didn't quite go to plan. Next time he did the murder/mutilation elsewhere but made sure to dump the victim in Whitechapel (Pinchin St Torso), September '89.
    probably correct harry
    Pinchin was his last hurrah, incorporating elements of both "series".
    and the Torsoripper was never heard from again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Also worth noting in the Tabram case is the evidence that 2 distinctly different knives were used, the larger only once. Logically if one man had both, he could have saved himself lots of time and energy by using the large blade first. It appears though it was the final blow, the assuredly fatal one. This could be the work of 2 men.

    As Sam noted the area covered by these stabs seems to remain for the most part in the mid-upper body range, and no cuts to speak of. There is little doubt that the killer of Polly, then Annie, had a fetish if you will for female reproductive organs and anatomy, located in the pelvic area. Its part of his MO here, his Signature or whatever else you want to call it, its him telling us what he wants to do. How he gets to that point is also consistent in the 2 cases I mentioned. Don't underestimate comfort zone, risk taker for sure, but perhaps not consciously. Might not have been in control.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.
    Apart from the single stab to the privates on Tabram, Nichols and McKenzie.
    Yes, the killer probably realised what hard work and time consuming 39 stabs were.

    Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.
    Yes, only Bond or was it Phillips, noted that in McKenzie`s case the private part was mons veneris.
    But, still a stab to the privates, which is probably all the killer was aware of.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post

    How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?
    The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.

    Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    Mind you, Tabram had 38 others.
    How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?

    Leave a comment:


  • Harry D
    replied
    The Ripper was back. First he murdered Elizabeth Jackson around June '89. Went back to his old stomping ground and slew Alice McKenzie a month later. That didn't quite go to plan. Next time he did the murder/mutilation elsewhere but made sure to dump the victim in Whitechapel (Pinchin St Torso), September '89.

    Leave a comment:

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