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McKenzie - Ripper or not?

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  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.
    Apart from the single stab to the privates on Tabram, Nichols and McKenzie.
    Yes, the killer probably realised what hard work and time consuming 39 stabs were.

    Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.
    Yes, only Bond or was it Phillips, noted that in McKenzie`s case the private part was mons veneris.
    But, still a stab to the privates, which is probably all the killer was aware of.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post

    How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?
    The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.

    Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.

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  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    Mind you, Tabram had 38 others.
    How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?

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  • Harry D
    replied
    The Ripper was back. First he murdered Elizabeth Jackson around June '89. Went back to his old stomping ground and slew Alice McKenzie a month later. That didn't quite go to plan. Next time he did the murder/mutilation elsewhere but made sure to dump the victim in Whitechapel (Pinchin St Torso), September '89.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Both Tabram and Nichols had a similar stab.
    Mind you, Tabram had 38 others.

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  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    Also we have a superficial cut only an eighth of an inch deep across the mons veneris.


    Both Tabram and Nichols had a similar stab.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

    One might also think that heightened alertness would have made any near misses more pronounced Sam.
    More alertness would mean that he'd have been more on his guard, too, so fewer encounters, not more. It is, I think, highly significant that the biggest gap between murders happened after H Division had been heavily reinforced and the Vigilance Committee had really found its voice.

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  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

    This might tell us more about the after-effects of a murder than the murders themselves. Namely, that in the first couple of weeks after a successful kill, people - the police, the general populace and potential victims - became more alert, making it harder for the killer to "score". After three or four weeks, perhaps people's guards were slipping, making it easier for a killer to succeed.

    (Some might say that Nichols-to-Chapman doesn't fit that pattern, but who would have foreseen that there'd be a series of "ripping" murders after Buck's Row?)
    One might also think that heightened alertness would have made any near misses more pronounced Sam. I don't seem to recall a whole bunch, or even a few, close calls reported during the intervals between kills...unless you count Ms Kennedys/Lewis's report perhaps. But one would think that had he attempted to do what he did with the prior kills during those "dormant" periods, it would have been newsworthy.

    To Abby...Queen Vicky speculated about people on cattle boats...who arrived at the end of the month and departed at the beginning of the next.

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post

    Someone on a monthly salary cheque would have money to go out at the end or begining of a month
    Trouble is, Mary Kelly was killed in the 2nd week of the month, and Chapman at the very end of the first week. If someone was paid weekly, however - as a working class person might be - then Friday/Saturday/Sunday would be the three days when they'd have had some money in their pockets, regardless of the month. Not that the Ripper would necessarily have needed much, if any, money about his person.
    Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-24-2019, 05:32 PM.

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  • Herlock Sholmes
    replied
    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
    . I'm also unsure why you don't consider that the killer was interrupted, this seems the most likely reason to me for reduced mutilations.
    I think that if the killer had time to make a not very deep cut then he had time to simply apply more pressure and make a deeper, more ripper-like mutilation. Also we have a superficial cut only an eighth of an inch deep across the mons veneris. Why was he piffling around in the street when heíd have known that someone could have approached at any time?

    .
    The C5 did not all occur at a weekend. I don't think the weekend as we think of it had really been invented. Most people worked five and a half day weeks, only finishing at lunchtime on Saturdays. So the killer striking twice on a Thursday night, once on a Friday night, and twice on (the same) Saturday night doesn't indicate to me that he waited until he'd finished his week's work - three out of the four attack nights had working days before and after.

    Of course, he may not have worked at all, or only casually, or cyclically, or not cared if he was dog-tired the next day, or took stimulants, or was an insomniac, etc etc. Maybe he was Tyler Durden?
    I donít understand this Joshua but perhaps Iím getting this wrong (I am hopeless with days and dates)

    Nichols - 31st August - Friday.
    Chapman - 8th September - Saturday.
    Stride/Eddowes - 30th September - Sunday.
    Kelly - 9th November - Friday.

    As we donít know the killers personal circumstances all that Iím saying is that these days might have been significant. What if he worked for himself and only came to Central London at the weekend? There might have been another reason that he only killed at the weekend. Of course these days might have been completely irrelevant too.




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  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    hi Michael
    yes-its a point ive brought up before too-the murders only seem to happen in beginning or end of month. and like my previous question (re the days of the week he worked)--is there any profession that would not be condusive to going out hunting in the middle of the month-like being away on travel for example during the middle of the month?
    Someone on a monthly salary cheque would have money to go out at the end or begining of a month

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
    Im not one for application of Numerology to solve these, Moon phases, nor do I see any strong arguments for specific days of the week/weekend, but I admit Im curious as to why none of the Canonical murders take place after the 9th of the month.
    This might tell us more about the after-effects of a murder than the murders themselves. Namely, that in the first couple of weeks after a successful kill, people - the police, the general populace and potential victims - became more alert, making it harder for the killer to "score". After three or four weeks, perhaps people's guards were slipping, making it easier for a killer to succeed.

    (Some might say that Nichols-to-Chapman doesn't fit that pattern, but who would have foreseen that there'd be a series of "ripping" murders after Buck's Row?)
    Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-24-2019, 03:49 PM.

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  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
    Im not one for application of Numerology to solve these, Moon phases, nor do I see any strong arguments for specific days of the week/weekend, but I admit Im curious as to why none of the Canonical murders take place after the 9th of the month. There is a large gap in September and Oct between murders, it seems that its either the beginning of the month...or end of the month. In September in particular that strikes me as interesting, because from Polly to Annie is only 10 days...and then this long break until months end. It suddenly resumes the week Kate gets back and the week Liz breaks up with Kidney.
    hi Michael
    yes-its a point ive brought up before too-the murders only seem to happen in beginning or end of month. and like my previous question (re the days of the week he worked)--is there any profession that would not be condusive to going out hunting in the middle of the month-like being away on travel for example during the middle of the month?

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    I wouldn't have thought so, Abs. Anyone in regular employment would be lucky to get a weekend off, never mind three days.
    thanks Sam
    probably. but my first job out of college was schlepping Gallo products (booze). Id visit my clients-liquor stores and restuarants- during the week, take there orders and submit them to the warehouse, and the customers would then get there product delivered by our drivers the next day. Since we were closed on Saturdays, and no deliveries would be made, there was no visiting customers on Friday.so basically, we worked Mon-Thursday.

    I was just wondering if there could be any type deal like that going on then.

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  • Michael W Richards
    replied
    Im not one for application of Numerology to solve these, Moon phases, nor do I see any strong arguments for specific days of the week/weekend, but I admit Im curious as to why none of the Canonical murders take place after the 9th of the month. There is a large gap in September and Oct between murders, it seems that its either the beginning of the month...or end of the month. In September in particular that strikes me as interesting, because from Polly to Annie is only 10 days...and then this long break until months end. It suddenly resumes the week Kate gets back and the week Liz breaks up with Kidney. Then, a month long gap.

    I believe that the man that killed Polly killed so soon after because he either wasn't sated or had increased appetite. So why would he then stop until the end of the month?
    Last edited by Michael W Richards; 07-24-2019, 02:56 PM.

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