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McKenzie - Ripper or not?

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  • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
    Im not one for application of Numerology to solve these, Moon phases, nor do I see any strong arguments for specific days of the week/weekend, but I admit Im curious as to why none of the Canonical murders take place after the 9th of the month. There is a large gap in September and Oct between murders, it seems that its either the beginning of the month...or end of the month. In September in particular that strikes me as interesting, because from Polly to Annie is only 10 days...and then this long break until months end. It suddenly resumes the week Kate gets back and the week Liz breaks up with Kidney.
    hi Michael
    yes-its a point ive brought up before too-the murders only seem to happen in beginning or end of month. and like my previous question (re the days of the week he worked)--is there any profession that would not be condusive to going out hunting in the middle of the month-like being away on travel for example during the middle of the month?
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
      Im not one for application of Numerology to solve these, Moon phases, nor do I see any strong arguments for specific days of the week/weekend, but I admit Im curious as to why none of the Canonical murders take place after the 9th of the month.
      This might tell us more about the after-effects of a murder than the murders themselves. Namely, that in the first couple of weeks after a successful kill, people - the police, the general populace and potential victims - became more alert, making it harder for the killer to "score". After three or four weeks, perhaps people's guards were slipping, making it easier for a killer to succeed.

      (Some might say that Nichols-to-Chapman doesn't fit that pattern, but who would have foreseen that there'd be a series of "ripping" murders after Buck's Row?)
      Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-24-2019, 03:49 PM.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

        hi Michael
        yes-its a point ive brought up before too-the murders only seem to happen in beginning or end of month. and like my previous question (re the days of the week he worked)--is there any profession that would not be condusive to going out hunting in the middle of the month-like being away on travel for example during the middle of the month?
        Someone on a monthly salary cheque would have money to go out at the end or begining of a month

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
          . I'm also unsure why you don't consider that the killer was interrupted, this seems the most likely reason to me for reduced mutilations.
          I think that if the killer had time to make a not very deep cut then he had time to simply apply more pressure and make a deeper, more ripper-like mutilation. Also we have a superficial cut only an eighth of an inch deep across the mons veneris. Why was he piffling around in the street when he’d have known that someone could have approached at any time?

          .
          The C5 did not all occur at a weekend. I don't think the weekend as we think of it had really been invented. Most people worked five and a half day weeks, only finishing at lunchtime on Saturdays. So the killer striking twice on a Thursday night, once on a Friday night, and twice on (the same) Saturday night doesn't indicate to me that he waited until he'd finished his week's work - three out of the four attack nights had working days before and after.

          Of course, he may not have worked at all, or only casually, or cyclically, or not cared if he was dog-tired the next day, or took stimulants, or was an insomniac, etc etc. Maybe he was Tyler Durden?
          I don’t understand this Joshua but perhaps I’m getting this wrong (I am hopeless with days and dates)

          Nichols - 31st August - Friday.
          Chapman - 8th September - Saturday.
          Stride/Eddowes - 30th September - Sunday.
          Kelly - 9th November - Friday.

          As we don’t know the killers personal circumstances all that I’m saying is that these days might have been significant. What if he worked for himself and only came to Central London at the weekend? There might have been another reason that he only killed at the weekend. Of course these days might have been completely irrelevant too.




          Regards

          Herlock






          "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post

            Someone on a monthly salary cheque would have money to go out at the end or begining of a month
            Trouble is, Mary Kelly was killed in the 2nd week of the month, and Chapman at the very end of the first week. If someone was paid weekly, however - as a working class person might be - then Friday/Saturday/Sunday would be the three days when they'd have had some money in their pockets, regardless of the month. Not that the Ripper would necessarily have needed much, if any, money about his person.
            Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-24-2019, 05:32 PM.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

              This might tell us more about the after-effects of a murder than the murders themselves. Namely, that in the first couple of weeks after a successful kill, people - the police, the general populace and potential victims - became more alert, making it harder for the killer to "score". After three or four weeks, perhaps people's guards were slipping, making it easier for a killer to succeed.

              (Some might say that Nichols-to-Chapman doesn't fit that pattern, but who would have foreseen that there'd be a series of "ripping" murders after Buck's Row?)
              One might also think that heightened alertness would have made any near misses more pronounced Sam. I don't seem to recall a whole bunch, or even a few, close calls reported during the intervals between kills...unless you count Ms Kennedys/Lewis's report perhaps. But one would think that had he attempted to do what he did with the prior kills during those "dormant" periods, it would have been newsworthy.

              To Abby...Queen Vicky speculated about people on cattle boats...who arrived at the end of the month and departed at the beginning of the next.
              Michael Richards

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                One might also think that heightened alertness would have made any near misses more pronounced Sam.
                More alertness would mean that he'd have been more on his guard, too, so fewer encounters, not more. It is, I think, highly significant that the biggest gap between murders happened after H Division had been heavily reinforced and the Vigilance Committee had really found its voice.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                  Also we have a superficial cut only an eighth of an inch deep across the mons veneris.


                  Both Tabram and Nichols had a similar stab.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                    [/COLOR]

                    Both Tabram and Nichols had a similar stab.
                    Mind you, Tabram had 38 others.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • The Ripper was back. First he murdered Elizabeth Jackson around June '89. Went back to his old stomping ground and slew Alice McKenzie a month later. That didn't quite go to plan. Next time he did the murder/mutilation elsewhere but made sure to dump the victim in Whitechapel (Pinchin St Torso), September '89.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                        Mind you, Tabram had 38 others.
                        How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post

                          How many other stab wounds were in that area of the body?
                          The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.

                          Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                            The elephant in the room is that the overwhelming majority of her 39 stab wounds were in her upper body, and there was not one cut to speak of. Very different from the Ripper murders; almost the opposite, in fact.
                            Apart from the single stab to the privates on Tabram, Nichols and McKenzie.
                            Yes, the killer probably realised what hard work and time consuming 39 stabs were.

                            Plus, due to paucity of detailed evidence, we don't know exactly where Tabram's or Nichols' "nether region" stab was, so we have no way of saying how similar they were to each other, or Alice McKenzie's.
                            Yes, only Bond or was it Phillips, noted that in McKenzie`s case the private part was mons veneris.
                            But, still a stab to the privates, which is probably all the killer was aware of.

                            Comment


                            • Also worth noting in the Tabram case is the evidence that 2 distinctly different knives were used, the larger only once. Logically if one man had both, he could have saved himself lots of time and energy by using the large blade first. It appears though it was the final blow, the assuredly fatal one. This could be the work of 2 men.

                              As Sam noted the area covered by these stabs seems to remain for the most part in the mid-upper body range, and no cuts to speak of. There is little doubt that the killer of Polly, then Annie, had a fetish if you will for female reproductive organs and anatomy, located in the pelvic area. Its part of his MO here, his Signature or whatever else you want to call it, its him telling us what he wants to do. How he gets to that point is also consistent in the 2 cases I mentioned. Don't underestimate comfort zone, risk taker for sure, but perhaps not consciously. Might not have been in control.
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                                The Ripper was back. First he murdered Elizabeth Jackson around June '89. Went back to his old stomping ground and slew Alice McKenzie a month later. That didn't quite go to plan. Next time he did the murder/mutilation elsewhere but made sure to dump the victim in Whitechapel (Pinchin St Torso), September '89.
                                probably correct harry
                                Pinchin was his last hurrah, incorporating elements of both "series".
                                and the Torsoripper was never heard from again.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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