John McCarthy's shop?

[Chava]

It's unlikely there would be many Jews there. In fact the more I think about it, the more I think it's unlikely he stocked any kind of 'Jewish food'. All that stuff has to be supervised. Of course there would be plenty of Jews who didn't give a damn about kashrus and ate whatever they liked in the new land. But if they wanted to get away from their roots, they wouldn't have eaten this kind of food. Jews who still maintained their religion likely wouldn't have bought food from a gentile. And as Gareth says, there weren't many Jews living around there. And there were plenty (trust me plenty) of little corner stores in the Jewish East End catering for all shades of Jewish culinary taste. It's possible that some gentiles living in the LVP came across Jewish foods and liked them. maybe wanted to buy them. So my little old gefilte-fish-making lady could still have worked for McCarthy to fulfill their desires. But in general Jews probably would not have patronized him. And Friday night is Shabbat. So a lot of Jews wouldn't even have been in the streets.

[Celesta]

Perhaps not so crowded, Cel. From what I remember there were comparatively few Jews living in and around Dorset Street in 1888.

No, not crowded, just more traffic perhaps.

[caz]

I wonder why McCarthy's shop wasn't more busy on the Friday night at around midnight. You'd have thought he would have some food preparation going on and a possible stream of customers.

By the Friday night, eating may not have been on people's minds as much as a stiff Bloody Mary, Nemo.

Love,

Caz
X

PS Not Jewish myself, but I love a Brick Lane salt beef bagel for breakies, the morning after a WS1888 meeting.

[Carrotty Nell]

One interesting point that is emerging. We have been lead to believe on previous threads that Dorset street was the most anti-Semitic street in London, and that has a serious bearing when considering the likelihood of certain suspects being in its vicinity. The fact that Mr Isaac Jacobs (I'm assuming he was a Jew) was casually tootling off there for his supper and McCarthy is said to have done trade selling food to a wide Jewish clientele, kind of calls this theory into question.

[Shelley]

Hi Shelley

Would you mind searching the message boards for Kitty Ronan please

Dan Norder very kindly resurrected a thread all about the location of her room entitled (strangely enough) "Kitty Ronan's room"

The jury is still out I think regarding it being either No. 20 Prater's old room
(which may or may not have been above No.13) which was re-numbered as No.12 or in the No.12 across the other side of the pump
Thanks

Nemo

Supertious into play............No wonder Christ got it!

[Nemo]

Caz - lol - bit of a ghoulish sense of humour you got there - but I like it

My post should obviously have referred to Thursday night..

In a press report I read...

"Moreover,the room which she occupied - which was on the ground floor - and for which she paid 4s a week, was part of the adjoining shop - now used as a ware-room."

Surely this refers to the "shed"?

The shed has been described as a store for barrows or a homeless shelter at times. I wonder if it was also used at times as the food-shop, a canteen type of area?

Possibly the food was paid for in McCarthy's shop at No.27 and then you had access to the facility next door to sit down and eat.

I cannot really see someone walking back home through the East End streets late at night with a plateful of food.

I have always been interested in the use of the shed as I believe a person in the shed would be privy to pretty much everything going on in Kelly's room as the two were separated in the main only by a thin partition of matchbox wood.

[Chava]

The food would have been wrapped in newspaper, wouldn't it? Fish and chips certainly was.

I don't know if Dorset St was the most anti-Semitic street in London. I haven't heard that it was. It's more likely that, being a notorious street full of prostitutes and grifters, the Jews just didn't want to live there. There were a few Jewish families, but if you look at the maps of Jewish occupancy in this area, Dorset St doesn't show up as having too much of a Jewish presence. The Jews would be more likely to gravitate towards Jewish landlords rather than moving into the 'Irisher's' premises. But that wouldn't stop the occasional Jew from buying stuff at McCarthy's store!

[Sam Flynn]

I don't know if Dorset St was the most anti-Semitic street in London.

I doubt very much that it was, Chava. Although primarily made up of Anglo-Irish dossers, quite a number of Eastern Europeans/Jews seem to have made Dorset Street their home according to the census returns. I'm not sure that the presence of a majority of gentiles would automatically make a street anti-Semitic, still less the "most" anti-Semitic.

The Eastern Europeans/Jews were clearly not barred from living there, which one might have expected if racist feelings ran that high ("Sorry, mate, you'll 'ave to find somewheres else ter stay. Nuffink against you personally, you understand, but your sort can get some people's backs up, see. I can do wivvout that sort of trouble rahnd 'ere...").