Prater's stairs

[Stephen Thomas]

I can't work out how to get a 12 x 6 store room into that space on the landing!

Hi Richard

OK maybe the snooker table comparison wasn't too clever. If the house was only 12 ft. wide (and it certainly looks that way from the 1928 photo of the front) and the stairwell was only 5 ft. wide then the back room which contained a corridor and a store room large enough for people to sleep in could only have been 7 ft. wide. If the corridor was 3 ft. wide that would mean the store room would have been about 4 ft. x 9 ft.

[richardh]

Okay,
It's just that I can't work out how to get a 12 x 6 store room into that space on the landing!

Might leave it as it is as I'm not really into guessing games!

Sorry, no can do Richard. I'm a total Luddite as regards digital technology.

Otherwise I would have flooded this thread with diagrams.

But if you read what I say carefully you'll get there in the end.

My my, what an arrogant prick I am.

[Stephen Thomas]

Actually, the link should work as long as I keep the window open on my PC. So annotate the image using the link above.

Sorry, no can do Richard. I'm a total Luddite as regards digital technology.

Otherwise I would have flooded this thread with diagrams.

But if you read what I say carefully you'll get there in the end.

My my, what an arrogant prick I am.

[richardh]

Link to annotate the map is:

https://www.twiddla.com/2486560

password is - ripper

[richardh]

Actually, the link should work as long as I keep the window open on my PC. So annotate the image using the link above.

thanks

[richardh]

Sorry,
Ignore that link above Stephen, I though the service (twiddla) allowed me to set up a permanent whiteboard with the image ready to annotate. It seems they refresh/remove the pages automatically even if you have an account (unless you pay of course).

I'll find another 'whiteboard' website and try again.

Sorry
R

Stephen,
This link will open up a page where you can annotate the image above.

Can you guide me by drawing what you mean please?

https://www.twiddla.com/2486560

thanks

[richardh]

Stephen,
This link will open up a page where you can annotate the image above.

Can you guide me by drawing what you mean please?

https://www.twiddla.com/2486560

thanks

No, you haven't quite got it yet, Richard.

Room 13 was as it was. It was said to be 12x10 ft but maybe it was 13x9.5 ft or maybe 14x10.5 ft or something similar. Who knows? The chimney breast was in the centre of the back wall and the partition was where it was as per the photo. Of course the brick wall on the Goad Map doesn't represent the partition. Goad Maps don't show any internal walls apart from brick walls and don't show doors or windows either. Any attempt to try and figure out the internal layout of a building simply from a Goad Map is doomed to failure. I don't know but I imagine that the Goad Maps were mainly to detail where brick walls were to stop the spread of fire. The back staircase was between Kelly's room and the main back wall of the house. Your 2D plan is very good but the back parlour which had become a store room and a corridor is a little too square.

[Stephen Thomas]

Here's a plan of what it looks like at the moment:


I'm wondering if you want that partition to be positioned INSIDE the floorspace of #13? In which case it will be right up against the chimney breast in #13 which would contradict the contemporary drawings we have which shows an alcove between the chimney breast and the partition wall.

Is the solid line on the Goad plan between the landing and #19 (seen on the goad plan in this image) the partition or the back wall of the shed/#19?

No, you haven't quite got it yet, Richard.

Room 13 was as it was. It was said to be 12x10 ft but maybe it was 13x9.5 ft or maybe 14x10.5 ft or something similar. Who knows? The chimney breast was in the centre of the back wall and the partition was where it was as per the photo. Of course the brick wall on the Goad Map doesn't represent the partition. Goad Maps don't show any internal walls apart from brick walls and don't show doors or windows either. Any attempt to try and figure out the internal layout of a building simply from a Goad Map is doomed to failure. I don't know but I imagine that the Goad Maps were mainly to detail where brick walls were to stop the spread of fire. The back staircase was between Kelly's room and the main back wall of the house. Your 2D plan is very good but the back parlour which had become a store room and a corridor is a little too square.

[richardh]

Updated the Thomas Plan again and readjusted the 2D plan (above).
LINK

[richardh]

Here's a plan of what it looks like at the moment:


I'm wondering if you want that partition to be positioned INSIDE the floorspace of #13? In which case it will be right up against the chimney breast in #13 which would contradict the contemporary drawings we have which shows an alcove between the chimney breast and the partition wall.

Is the solid line on the Goad plan between the landing and #19 (seen on the goad plan in this image) the partition or the back wall of the shed/#19?

[richardh]

So, you're saying that the store room would be about 6ft x 12ft Stephen, on a landing that is 12ft x 10ft (or being generous 15 x 10ft)? Maybe you mean a pool table (9 x 5)?

Hi Richard
As far as I can see the store room would have been about the size of a professional snooker table.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Richard

Regarding our private conversation, yes your positioning of the store room is now dead right but I think the important thing is to be able to show the entrance and exit for the corridor which would have started at the top of the back staircase (which some people here are strangely refusing to believe existed) then snaked round the store room and ended at the 1st landing of the main stairs outside Room #20. It would be nice, and I for one would be very grateful, if you could produce a 2D computer floor plan graphic showing Rooms 19 and 20 with the store room and 'dark passage' between and the landing outside Room #20. As far as I can see the store room would have been about the size of a professional snooker table.

[richardh]

Yes, Jon, this configuration is similar to an earlier version and I too like it better because the stairs are in a more logical position/location.
I agree also that the partition would be obscured by the stairs so that anyone ascending would not really be able to see the partition once going UP the stairs. they would be able to see the partition upon entering the door (Prater's door). I know Prater stated that she could sometimes see light through the partition when she went up but maybe she meant that she saw the light when she came through the door and started up the stairs?

There are still problems to sort out and the model is still a work in progress!

Hi Richard.
So you end up with stairs located very much like we saw at Hanbury St.

Didn't we have it that way earlier, but wasn't there an objection, perhaps that the stairs obscure a view of Kelly's partition.
Prater said it was possible to see light through a split? in the partition.

I actually prefer this.
We don't know if those stairs had risers, so it would still be possible to see through the treads if there were no risers.
On balance, this arrangement better suits what we know.

[Wickerman]

Updated (tweaked) the Goad Model.
HERE

Changed the direction of the stairs to face toward the front door. 1st floor layout agrees with the Kate Marshall testimony.

Hi Richard.
So you end up with stairs located very much like we saw at Hanbury St.

Didn't we have it that way earlier, but wasn't there an objection, perhaps that the stairs obscure a view of Kelly's partition.
Prater said it was possible to see light through a split? in the partition.

I actually prefer this.
We don't know if those stairs had risers, so it would still be possible to see through the treads if there were no risers.
On balance, this arrangement better suits what we know.

[richardh]

Updated (tweaked) the Goad Model.
HERE

Changed the direction of the stairs to face toward the front door. 1st floor layout agrees with the Kate Marshall testimony.