Prater's stairs

[Stephen Thomas]

Back on track !

This is a new layout based on the drawings of Stephen Thomas (hope you don't mind me using them?).

Please provide feedback.

Q: Should the shed have stairs to the 1st floor landing?
Q: I can't fathom that spiral staircase in the centre of Stephen's drawing. Can this be further explained to me?
Q: the stairs on the 1st floor and the stairs on the 2nd floor - are they going in the right direction?
Q: didn't include the 'original staircase' which leads from the shed up to the landing because I couldn't get it to fit within the configuration I have at the moment. This needs explaining please.

I may have messed up big time with the stairs because the drawings configuration confused me. Can you put some direction arrows in the drawings?

Hi Richard

The top left picture is ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.

The top right picture is OK but would need a bit of work.

The rest are wrong it's my fault not yours.

My first drawing (on the left) shows the main staircase going the wrong way.

My second drawing is totally correct in showing the relationship between the front and back rooms and the landing and staircase on the upper 3 floors of the house. It's not a depiction of a circular staircase as you mentioned later but just an indication that a staircase in any house over 3 storeys has to turn back on itself by means of a half landing or a curved design

The staircase in #26 went south to north and turned to go north to south.

(rather like the similar #29 Hanbury St one must have done)

My dodgy drawing from many years ago sent you on the wrong track and for that I apologise but if you make the stairs go north/south starting in the ground floor hallway a la 29 Hanbury instead of east/west you'll see how the whole thing ties together.

Regarding the shed, I would imagine that the non supporting wall on the right as you entered the front door would have been removed making the front parlour plus back parlour plus hallway area available for storage.

All the best

Stephen

[richardh]

Stephen
So (in the first pic) am I right to say that there is a partition AND a brick wall with the stairway sandwiched?

IS the door (Prater's) immediately in front of the stairs?

Hi Richard

The top left picture is ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.

The top right picture is OK but would need a bit of work.

The rest are wrong it's my fault not yours.

My first drawing (on the left) shows the main staircase going the wrong way.

My second drawing is totally correct in showing the relationship between the front and back rooms and the landing and staircase on the upper 3 floors of the house. It's not a depiction of a circular staircase as you mentioned later but just an indication that a staircase in any house over 3 storeys has to turn back on itself by means of a half landing or a curved design

The staircase in #26 went south to north and turned to go north to south.

(rather like the similar #29 Hanbury St one must have done)

My dodgy drawing from many years ago sent you on the wrong track and for that I apologise but if you make the stairs go north/south starting in the ground floor hallway a la 29 Hanbury instead of east/west you'll see how the whole thing ties together.

Regarding the shed, I would imagine that the non supporting wall on the right as you entered the front door would have been removed making the front parlour plus back parlour plus hallway area available for storage.

All the best

Stephen

[Stephen Thomas]

Stephen
So (in the first pic) am I right to say that there is a partition AND a brick wall with the stairway sandwiched?

IS the door (Prater's) immediately in front of the stairs?

As I said, Richard, the first pic is correct in every detail. Much is made in the old reports of the rickety wooden partition.

A wooden partition cannot possibly be a brick wall.

If by 'Prater's door' you mean the door to the back staircase then yes it is.

As I said, you just need to get the orientation of the main stairs correct.

[Robert St Devil]

Steve. I think Wick is right. It indicates the change from 3 to 2 stories.

[richardh]

Sorry, forgot to ask a question that occurred to me last night:
Room 20 (front room 1st floor) - was it accessible by going up the stairs from the shed to the 1st floor landing?


N.B: have to say that last night I was pulling my hair out truing to get those damn stairs to fit from ground to 1st to 2nd as that landing on the 1st is only 6ft x 9ft (store takes up rest of landing)

As I said, Richard, the first pic is correct in every detail. Much is made in the old reports of the rickety wooden partition.

A wooden partition cannot possibly be a brick wall.

If by 'Prater's door' you mean the door to the back staircase then yes it is.

As I said, you just need to get the orientation of the main stairs correct.

[Robert St Devil]

Stephen Thomas. Hello. Wouldnt that staircase cut the room in half, cutting off marys room from the shed?

If her door wasnt always there, how did the get into the back room?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=richardh;364181]

Post 238.

[Pierre]

Stephen
So (in the first pic) am I right to say that there is a partition AND a brick wall with the stairway sandwiched?

IS the door (Prater's) immediately in front of the stairs?

If you want the real measures you should follow Goad´s map.

The door to the stairs is much nearer the street for one thing.

Regards Pierre

[richardh]

I need a drawing/sketch of the stairs configuration from #26 to the 1st floor. I can't get my head around it.

Oh and Stephen, North is the front of #26 right?

[Michael W Richards]

If you want the real measures you should follow Goad´s map.

The door to the stairs is much nearer the street for one thing.

Regards Pierre

The door that enters #26 is just inside the archway from the courtyard, not the street. Its partially visible from outside Marys room in some contemporary sketches.

[Michael W Richards]

Stephen Thomas. Hello. Wouldnt that staircase cut the room in half, cutting off marys room from the shed?

If her door wasnt always there, how did the get into the back room?

The staircase could be slightly steeper than indicated in the images being produced, and as such would allow for a small entrance area, perhaps enough for an area rug at the foot of the stairs, and then access to the salon to the left of the staircase

[Stephen Thomas]

Sorry, forgot to ask a question that occurred to me last night:
Room 20 (front room 1st floor) - was it accessible by going up the stairs from the shed to the 1st floor landing?


N.B: have to say that last night I was pulling my hair out truing to get those damn stairs to fit from ground to 1st to 2nd as that landing on the 1st is only 6ft x 9ft (store takes up rest of landing)

Ah there's where you're going wrong, Richard.

The landings on the 3 upper floors were all identical to the one shown on my drawing and all would have measured 6ft by 3ft approximately.

The store didn't take up any part of the landing.

To get to Room 20 from the front door in Dorset Street one would walk up the main stair in the hallway which would turn back on itself on to this 6 by 3 landing. In front of you would be Room 20 and to your left would be the doorway to the storeroom. Behind you on the left would be the first part of the stairs to the floor above. Should you wish to visit Millers Court from this point you would go through the storeroom where you would emerge at the top of Prater's stairs which we are discussing here.

Of course the front door would have been locked in 1888 and even the lower part of the staircase may have been removed to make more room in the Shed.

[Pierre]

Suggestion: A solution for the stairs

I need a drawing/sketch of the stairs configuration from #26 to the 1st floor. I can't get my head around it.

Oh and Stephen, North is the front of #26 right?

Hi Richardh,

the archway was at least 1,5 meters wide.

It could have been a corridor with doors.

That would explain how you could get access to the rooms in number 27 too.

And it can explain the sighting of "a glimmer" from the top of the "partition".

But perhaps it reach over a bit of Kelly´s room and there was a door there to the room above her as well. Then the corridor was a bit longer.

Regards Pierre

[richardh]

Pierre,
Your descriptions and layout are at odds with Stephen's drawings which is causing me utter confusion!
Your doorway to Prater's Stairs is using the Goad's map opening which I thought we decided was actually annotation on the map to say there is an 'opening' on the 1st floor (a window).

Or am I wrong?

Hi Richardh,

the archway was at least 1,5 meters wide.

It could have been a corridor with doors.

That would explain how you could get access to the rooms in number 27 too.

And it can explain the sighting of "a glimmer" from the top of the "partition".

But perhaps it reach over a bit of Kelly´s room and there was a door there to the room above her as well. Then the corridor was a bit longer.

Regards Pierre

[Robert St Devil]

Hi MWR.

It made me think last nite that,miller may have cut in that door, and built a corridor leading to it since they HAD to use that door and NOT the front door to no. 26.

I dont think the stairs run like that tho. Im thinking the stairs would have to make more sense to the house IF those side doors werent there