Prater's stairs

[richardh]

Hi Pierre
The only wall I can think you're talking of is the 'store' wall. Is that what you mean?

The first floor (the landing with doors to rooms 19 (above 13) and 26 (above shed) had the 9 x 4 'room' (if I've got this right and need to be confirmed or corrected). The ground floor would be number 13 at back with the shed at the front - and in between there is the landing with the stairs to 1st floor. that landing (ground floor) would be either 9ft (space depth between No13 and the shed) by 15ft (same depth as No13) IF the ground floor landing consisted of JUST the stairs to the first floor it would be a big space and a waste of space. I reckoned that there was a partition which blocked off and gave some space to the shed (hence what you can see in the video of the shed having that alcove at the back. OR the space could have been a self contained 'room' on the ground floor between No13's partition and the back wall of the shed.

I need all this clarifying by you good folk here as i might be totally wrong. But that's why I need the feedback.

The plan is an unaltered plan of Simon Wood's with my own continuation of the 1ft x 1ft graph squares that covers the landing(s) and the shed (oh and the passageway)

[QUOTE=Pierre;363548]

Here's my plan so far:
I didn't jot down the dimensions - just count the squares QUOTE]

Hi Richardh,

I don´t understand this plan.

Could you please tell me why there are walls in this plan that are not corresponding to the walls in Goad´s fire insurance plan?

Regards Pierre

[Joshua Rogan]

Apologies if I've helped deflect this thread away from Prater's stairs. I may have missed it, but I don't think I've seen anything which confirms the position of the staircase. The only plans I've seen have the stairs going straight, flush with the partition to no.13, such as this one;

http://cdn.whitechapeljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/millers_court_map.jpg?5fec07

Richard, your reconstruction looks great, and you've obviously put a lot of work into it. But is there any reason for believing the stairs go round corners?

[JadenCollins]

Pierre's questions.
1. A room has walls because if there were no walls it wouldn't be a room.
2. Yes, there's a door, otherwise you wouldn't be able to get in.
3. Yes, there are windows, no one likes to live in the dark.
4. Ooooh, there might be a 2nd door leading to wonderland. ( more like if you open it, you'll bump into more wood, because clearly it hasn't been used for years. )
5. I think this thread is about Praters stairs no? I could be wrong, check the title?
6. Who knows, Jack might be a damn ghost who goes through walls, he doesn't need doors.
7. Jack loved furniture, I guess he thought that MJK room had a lot negative vibes, so he decided to change that.
For more questions, I suggest you write on your "suggestion" thread.

[richardh]

Hi Joshua
The only reason i can give is what has been suggested on these forums. I too was totally led to believe that the stairs went straight up against the partition wall and my previous Miller's court 3D's and vids etc had the stairs set out along that wall.

Maybe they were ! That's what I'm hoping we can decide on in this thread with the result being a convincing 3D of what we all like.

Apologies if I've helped deflect this thread away from Prater's stairs. I may have missed it, but I don't think I've seen anything which confirms the position of the staircase. The only plans I've seen have the stairs going straight, flush with the partition to no.13, such as this one;

http://cdn.whitechapeljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/millers_court_map.jpg?5fec07

Richard, your reconstruction looks great, and you've obviously put a lot of work into it. But is there any reason for believing the stairs go round corners?

[Joshua Rogan]

The really annoying thing is that, in the 1899 murder trial transcript, the husband points to a plan of the building but this doesn't seem to have been included, alas!

[Wickerman]

The first floor (the landing with doors to rooms 19 (above 13) and 26 (above the shed)

Minor point, 19 and 20 (not 26)

had the 9 x 4 'room' (if I've got this right and need to be confirmed or corrected). The ground floor would be number 13 at back with the shed at the front - and in between there is the landing with the stairs to 1st floor.

Yes.

that landing (ground floor)

It might be well to give that ground floor space a different name, so as not to confuse it with the same size space on the floors above.
Vestibule maybe?
(Vestibule = an antechamber, hall, or lobby next to the outer door of a building.)
It isn't a "landing" though.

would be either 9ft (space depth between No13 and the shed) by 15ft (same depth as No13) IF the ground floor landing consisted of JUST the stairs to the first floor it would be a big space and a waste of space.

Quite true, it is possible there was another room here on the ground floor, directly below the 9' x 4' "storage" room up on the first floor landing.

I reckoned that there was a partition which blocked off and gave some space to the shed (hence what you can see in the video of the shed having that alcove at the back. OR the space could have been a self contained 'room' on the ground floor between No13's partition and the back wall of the shed.

Originally that ground floor front room (shed) would have been the front room of a house, so yes there would have been a wall and no doubt a door giving access to that front room (shed) from the ground floor entry/hall/vestibule area.

You are doing a fine job Richard.

[Wickerman]

Apologies if I've helped deflect this thread away from Prater's stairs. I may have missed it, but I don't think I've seen anything which confirms the position of the staircase. The only plans I've seen have the stairs going straight, flush with the partition to no.13, such as this one;

http://cdn.whitechapeljack.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/millers_court_map.jpg?5fec07

Hi Joshua.
If you placed the stairs across the back of Kelly's partition, there would be no room up on the first floor for a 9ft wide landing as described in the Kate Marshall case. Stairs are typically 4ft wide in older houses and the width of the house is only 15ft.

See how much floor space vanishes on the floor above the stairs in this simple sketch.



That first floor landing needs to be 9ft wide, and allow space for another set of stairs up to the second floor, plus a room for storage.
I think the stairs up to this first floor must be placed in such a way as to leave the maximum floor space, and that suggests to me at least, the stairs ran up the left side wall of the house just as we see in the Hanbury st. photo.

[Pierre]

Hi Wickerman

Here are some other measures if they could be of any use.

Regards Pierre

[GUT]

The really annoying thing is that, in the 1899 murder trial transcript, the husband points to a plan of the building but this doesn't seem to have been included, alas!

Never is, the plan would have been an exhibit, not a part of the transcript.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wickerman

Here are some other measures if they could be of any use.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre.
Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't 2,77 be 2.77?
I am seeing a comma instead of a decimal point which is confusing me.

I'm an imperialist at heart, metrification is an aggravation at my age

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Pierre.
Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't 2,77 be 2.77?
I am seeing a comma instead of a decimal point which is confusing me.

The decimal separator in many countries is a comma, Jon - in fact, the UK and US are somewhat outnumbered in their use of a dot. There's a list, and a handy map, at the link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark#Countries_using_Arabic_numerals_with_decimal_point

[Wickerman]

Thanks Gareth.

I had noticed Pierre was quite consistent in his use of the comma, so I figured the problem had more to do with my ignorance than a typo by Pierre.

Just so long as it is intended as a decimal separator I can better understand the suggestions being made

[richardh]

2.39 m from Dorset street is only 7.8 ft ! That's not far enough into the passage surely? By my calculations the doorway needs to be a minimum of 13 ft into the passage. No13 partition wall is 22 ft from Dorset St. frontages. Minus 9 ft (the landing/stairs) means Prater's door NEEDS to be between 13 and 21 ft into the passage. Or are my calculations off?

Hi Wickerman

Here are some other measures if they could be of any use.

Regards Pierre

[richardh]

Here is Jon's Drawing visualised:

Is Prater's door in the right position - to the right of the stairs?

[richardh]

The position of Prater's doorway in that map must be wrong? 21 ft from Street front is okay but the door position means the shed must have been partitioned off like below. Which would leave the stairs thus:

http://autumnofterror.com/13PLANS/shed.png


Getting very confused now with this.

Where is Prater's STAIR door on this image below?


Someone explain.