Prater's stairs

[GUT]

...so wouldn't it be more likely to be on the same side as the courtyard door is (I.e., the outside wall), to allow for a chimney? And if so, her bed is not next to it, as the wall (or partition) we see behind it in MJK1 is not made of brick.

But the wall may have been part brick and then part open now partition.

[David Orsam]

Having done some measurements I think it's fairly safe to say that Mary's room cannot possibly have been as small as 6 or 7 ft and that, realistically, 9ft is the minimum.

This brings us back to the "brick wall", both literally and metaphorically. That must be where the partition was. Some people have referred to this as a brick opening of some sort but not a wall. Could whoever has said this elaborate, perhaps with a photograph of what they are talking about.

I think Wickerman may be on the right lines. It's clear that internal partitioning of rooms is not shown in the map. I mean, just look at number 30 Dorset Street, a lodging house with only one room according to the map. That can't be right so the map is misleading in this respect.

Wickerman - I found your posts about the layout interesting. Could you elaborate further on where you think the staircase was? And do you think the Goad map is right about the location of "Prater's door"?"

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
If Praters door was right next to Kelly's, it does leave the distinct possibility that Kelly was not the Killers main objective.
Mrs Prater told McCarthy that she was waiting for her ''Young man'', but was now fed up with waiting, so was going up...
It is extremely likely, that the killer entered the wrong door, and struck it lucky, finding a young woman curled up in bed..
Obviously we would have to ignore many factors we have implanted in us ,over the years, but the very fact, that Prater was waiting for someone, and her door was next to Kelly's could lead to a tragic mistake..?
Regards Richard.

[Rosella]

Wouldn't Mary have locked her door though, if she was in her room alone and probably also barricade it with a chair?

[GUT]

Wouldn't Mary have locked her door though, if she was in her room alone and probably also barricade it with a chair?

Well we know they could open it through the window, so not sure if locking it would help.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
She may have been too drunk to realise that she had not Rosella, the killer may have been just lucky.?
She may have only locked the door when she was out. not inside,?
Regards Richard.

[MBDecre]

Hello MBDecre.

'T' = Tile. (as in roof tiles)

These are fire insurance maps, they don't care about toilets, at the time known as Water Closets.

Hi. All worth knowing, for them back then and for our research.

[MBDecre]

Hi.
If Praters door was right next to Kelly's, it does leave the distinct possibility that Kelly was not the Killers main objective.
Mrs Prater told McCarthy that she was waiting for her ''Young man'', but was now fed up with waiting, so was going up...
It is extremely likely, that the killer entered the wrong door, and struck it lucky, finding a young woman curled up in bed..
Obviously we would have to ignore many factors we have implanted in us ,over the years, but the very fact, that Prater was waiting for someone, and her door was next to Kelly's could lead to a tragic mistake..?
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard. That is interesting. Not sure if I've read you saying this before 'in forum' or someone else in one of the main JtR books, but I think someone did some follow up on this idea. I'd better leave anymore for a different thread, but bearing the MJK/Prater possibility in mind, it might be good to look as hard into Prater's life history as for MJK (similarities between associates, localities etc). The results might give insights into the MJK event, and obviously to deducing this part of the JtR issue. Prater could be the one 'victim' who lived...!?

Sorry, back on topic. Enjoying the 3D mapping project, it looks worthwhile.

[MBDecre]

Hi,
She may have been too drunk to realise that she had not Rosella, the killer may have been just lucky.?
She may have only locked the door when she was out. not inside,?
Regards Richard.

Hi both. It appears variable at each of the victim locations, some witnesses immediately adjacent say they almost battened down the hatches at night, others say they didn't bother locking their door. Just down to different personalities/experiences I guess.

[richardh]

Here is what I've done today. I'm pleased with the result because it ticks lots of boxes regarding many of the issues we've addressed in this forum thread.

The yellow doors are the blocked 'partitions'
I took the liberty of putting a yellow partition (blocked up door) which would lead into the 'salon'.

The stairs from Prater's door fit very well.
The partition (or blocked door) from #13 fit by Prater's stairs and would be a natural doorway had it not been boarded up.
From the shed there is a blocked doorway (yellow)
On the 1st floor we have the store/room which fits nicely
The doors to #19 and #20 are facing each other.
The landing is the right measurement
The shed is the right measurement
The stairs from the 1st to the 2nd fit nicely






What do you think?

[Elamarna]

personally i think it looks very promising

Elamarna

[Pierre]

Added some measurements and that 2nd door (which by Goad's reckoning is 4.5ft wide):



So this is just the brick walls and some measurements.

FYI the actual goad's base map image I'm using is here:

http://autumnofterror.com/13PLANS/goads.png

I'll try (with your help) to build the 3D using this (goad's) plan and only add stuff that we all (generally) think fits. Okay?

(easier said than done I know!)

P.S: my those measurements it looks like the passage way is about 4ft wide according to goad's so I doubt the (goad) scale is accurate.

Perfect. Excellent work.

Regards Pierre

[richardh]

Thanks Pierre,
With the door (Prater's) in that position it all seem to slot into place.
I was wondering if there were TWO door (partitions) in #13. One where we can see it in MJK photos and another other which would lead into the 'salon' (the backwall of the shed?

I await the views of other distinguished forum members.

Perfect. Excellent work.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

What do you think?

Hi Richardh,

just one thing: is the wall beside the doorway ("partition") the same lenght in b as in a? I have marked it in green.

The wall leading to the door ("partition") lookes shorter and the door will then not be put in itīs right place.

Perhaps you moved it a bit to the left to get it to fit with the stairs?

We do not know where the stairs were. But we do know where the doorway with the door ("partition") was. It is clearly visible in your first plan.

So it would be a good idea to keep the right measure for the door ("partition") when the stairway is being put in itīs place. Or what do you say?

If you could try and put the stairs inside the arch I think that would be the solution. There is a window in it and there usually is a window where there is a stairway. At least it is worth a try on the model a.

Your work is extremely important. When you try out different solutions going EXACTLY by the Goadīs map you see what works and what doesnīt. Perhaps the stairs were in the arch, since the model b is not precise. The stair doesnīt fit there. So this is something you can find out, that others have never managed to do.

Regards Pierre

[richardh]

Pierre
I don't know what you mean by 'in the arch'. can you explain a bit more please?
I could certainly make the yellow #13 partition fit the gap in the goad map. I'm just not sure if that gap signifies the doorway between #26 and #13 or it signifies the window on the 3rd floor?
I need advice.