Did Mary know her killer?

[RockySullivan]

What do we know about Thomas bowyer? I wonder where did McCarthy keep his axe...
The Kelly murder shows the ripper did work inside....what would the difference be between the scene of a torso dismemberment & the Kelly murder.....the cleanup?

[Wickerman]

... He's trapped in a lock room unlike some of the other ripper murders were he has some means of escape.

If someone did walk in on him, he is the one with the advantage.
I doubt anyone entering the room is expecting to be attacked by a knife wielding maniac.

[Wickerman]

It's strange the McCarthy's guy came to check on Kelly when she hadn't paid rent in so long, they choose that morning to check up on her?

Not strange, Landlords have said the best time to catch these 'ladies' is in a morning, as they typically are out most of the night.

Thats a paraphrase from one landlord who had the same problem with renters.

[FrancoLoco]

Yeah, this comes up over and over again and people think it could be incredibly significant but we always have to ask knew how? It could run the gamut from lover to someone she met that day.

c.d.

Or a previus client.

[Wickerman]

Or know like Mrs Maxwell knew [or perhaps thought she knew] Kelly?

When we look at her statements, both to the press and the court, it appears Maxwell was no nearer to Kelly than on the opposite side of the street.
Maxwell worked at No. 15, and lived next door at No. 14.

No. 15 Dorset St. is directly opposite No. 27, McCarthy's, so Maxwell walked to her left away from Kelly. Although the street is not too wide, it is quite possible she mistook another woman for Kelly.

When Maxwell left to go get milk she also walked away, westward in the direction of Bishopsgate. And on her return Maxwell claims to have seen Kelly at the far end of the street, that is something in the order of 120-150 ft away from No. 14.

There is a report in the Aberdeen Journal, 12th Nov., that tells us Maxwell described Kelly as wearing a "black dress with red trimmings".
It may not have been Kelly afterall.

Interestingly, Maurice Lewis, who also claimed to have seen a woman leave about 8 o'clock and return with milk about 9 o'clock.
This is what Maxwell did, not Kelly. I wonder if the reporter confused Lewis's statement for Kelly, when he was talking about Maxwell.

There must be simple answers to all this confusion.

[Wickerman]

Mary is simply Kate with the killer having more time.

c.d.

That is the simplest way to look at it, yes, I agree.

[MayBea]

He knew she was a prostitute and approached her when she wasn't really working.

She had a meal in her stomach so she wasn't desperate. Why risk taking a stranger into her home.

Didn't she entertain him with song?

He had a hankie ready to use as a probable contraceptive. How did he know she liked to use one?

[RockySullivan]

Not strange, Landlords have said the best time to catch these 'ladies' is in a morning, as they typically are out most of the night.

Thats a paraphrase from one landlord who had the same problem with renters.

But from what we know of the ripper, he only kills women, unfortunates where he has the upper hand. Would a coward like this really attack a man if trapped in a room ? McCarthy let's Kelly go for six weeks and only comes to collect the rent the exact morning she's been murdered....what an unlucky guy

[Wickerman]

But from what we know of the ripper, he only kills women, unfortunates where he has the upper hand. Would a coward like this really attack a man if trapped in a room ? McCarthy let's Kelly go for six weeks and only comes to collect the rent the exact morning she's been murdered....what an unlucky guy

He was never caught in the act so we cannot say what his response would have been.
Besides, it could just have easily been a female who came knocking. Mary had several female friends.

[Damaso Marte]

I have no idea if Mary knew her killer and I don't believe there is a sufficient basis in the evidence to conclude one way or another. It is equally plausible that Kelly may have been "off the clock" and sharing a room with an acquaintance, or that a sometimes-prostitute 6 weeks behind on her rent and angry at her ex-boyfriend may have invited an unknown client into her warm room on a November night, something many other prostitutes could not offer. The one thing there is no evidence of is forced entry, though I suppose it is theoretically possible.

One thing I object to is the idea that Mary's room was an especially risky place to commit a murder. Really? On a JTR forum where we routinely talk about Bucks Row, Mitre Square, Berner Street, and Hanbury, we single out an enclosed room as being an implausibly risky place to commit a murder?

[RockySullivan]

I have no idea if Mary knew her killer and I don't believe there is a sufficient basis in the evidence to conclude one way or another. It is equally plausible that Kelly may have been "off the clock" and sharing a room with an acquaintance, or that a sometimes-prostitute 6 weeks behind on her rent and angry at her ex-boyfriend may have invited an unknown client into her warm room on a November night, something many other prostitutes could not offer. The one thing there is no evidence of is forced entry, though I suppose it is theoretically possible.

One thing I object to is the idea that Mary's room was an especially risky place to commit a murder. Really? On a JTR forum where we routinely talk about Bucks Row, Mitre Square, Berner Street, and Hanbury, we single out an enclosed room as being an implausibly risky place to commit a murder?

While there's no risk of being disturbed by a passerbyer, there's no escape route and you can't hear someone coming until their at the door. There's pros & cons but obviously the ripper would have a time mutilating the way he did anywhere on the street

[Batman]

Mary took Blotchy face to her room. So if he isnt the murderer then we know she brings men back there. We must remember that Dorset St was an absolute cesspool and Mary had run into bad times recently explaining why she was holed up there. Nobody in their right mind would want to live where she was living, but it was better than sleeping upright with a rope around you.

A later interview with Cox's niece revealed that MJK would go to a place called the Frying Pan and bring back sailours to her room.

[Harry D]

If the Ripper was the 'other Joe' that Mary had been seeing on the side, the one said to have been mistreating her, it poses the question as to why he suddenly decided to make her his next victim?

[Wickerman]

Mrs Prater is quoted as saying:
"It was a common thing for the women living in these tenements to bring men home with them. They could do so as they pleased."
Daily Telegraph, 10 Nov.

[Wickerman]

If the Ripper was the 'other Joe' that Mary had been seeing on the side, the one said to have been mistreating her, it poses the question as to why he suddenly decided to make her his next victim?

All conjecture aside, it is really a tough sell to try separate Kelly's murder from Eddowes, and the rest. If Joe Fleming killed Mary then he killed them all, and that raises more questions.
Look at the Yorkshire Ripper victims, they were not all the same either.