MJK pregnancy

[MayBea]

For those who think the non-reporting of pregnancy by Bond is proof of Gravida 0, meaning Mary never gave birth, may you take notice that his actual reporting of evidence of Gravida 0 for Rose Mylett was incorrect.

Dr. Bond received Anderson's request and examined the body of Rose Mylett... the medical report revealed evidence purporting that Mylett had never given birth, this time contradicting the statement made by her mother (who said Rose Mylett gave birth to a son in 1881).

http://www.casebook.org/victims/mylett.html

[Debra A]

For those who think the non-reporting of pregnancy by Bond is proof of Gravida 0, meaning Mary never gave birth, may you take notice that his actual reporting of evidence of Gravida 0 for Rose Mylett was incorrect.



http://www.casebook.org/victims/mylett.html

I don't think these two situations compare, Maybea. Surely the suggestion here has been that it should be assumed Kelly was not pregnant at the time of her death because there was no observation by Bond that the uterus was gravid. In reality there is no comment from Bond at all on the condition of the uterus, just the location.

Catherine Mylett had two children in fact; Florence Beatrice and Henry. Dr Brownfield was mistaken in his conclusions she had never given birth but it was difficult to determine such a thing in those days and generally things like stretch marks and evidence of breastfeeding were looked for as a guide. I have found several medical texts advising doctors to not give a statement in the negative on previous pregnancy unless they were absolutely certain (the victim was a virgin). That was more Brownfield's failing in the Mylett case-being adamant Catherine had never given birth.

[MayBea]

You are correct, Debra, about the incorrect conclusion that Rose Mylett had never given birth. The conclusion, and/or the evidence for the conclusion, belonged to Dr. Brownfield and not Dr. Bond.

An old thread had Bond making the conclusion but, in actuality, he only did a re-examination for cause of death on behalf of Anderson.

However, I was just messaging with someone on this forum who stated adamantly that Mary Kelly was never pregnant because Bond would have said it.

Either way, you've made the case for me. Kelly could have given birth just as Rose did.

[Debra A]

You are correct, Debra, about the incorrect conclusion that Rose Mylett had never given birth. The conclusion, and/or the evidence for the conclusion, belonged to Dr. Brownfield and not Dr. Bond.

An old thread had Bond making the conclusion but, in actuality, he only did a re-examination for cause of death on behalf of Anderson.

However, I was just messaging with someone on this forum who stated adamantly that Mary Kelly was never pregnant because Bond would have said it.

Either way, you've made the case for me. Kelly could have given birth just as Rose did.

,

It certainly can't be ruled out that she was a mother at some point in the past, Maybea.
Bond would have said something if she was pregnant -but there is no actual description of the condition of any of the organs so I don't know for sure.

[Natasha]

Hi All

I thought maybe the following may be of use.

Since Barnett said Kelly had said she was in an infirmary when younger, I believe this to be true (though there are elements of the story I think Barnett may have made up)

On opening the thorax it was found that the right lung was minimally adherent by old firm adhesions. The lower part of the lung was broken and torn away. The left lung was intact. It was adherent at the apex and there were a few adhesions over the side. In the substances of the lung there were several nodules of consolidation.


Now the nodules of consolidation, I think, maybe the effects of a new infection. Upon looking into this I found the following very interesting:

primary infection of TB can remain dormant and remerge into the secondary phase, if reinfected or the body defenses are lowered for example by, malnorishment, injury or another disease or as a result of childbirth

[Rosella]

Mary may well have been a patient earlier in an infirmary and a lack of good food and her lifestyle may well have left dormant TB cells in her lungs. I don't know that we can draw too much more from it though.

TB was so prevalent in urban populations in First world countries in the 19th century that probably lots of people would have had similar damaged lungs, especially among the very poor. It killed more than 4 million people in England and Wales alone between 1851 and 1910, most from lung disease.

[MayBea]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

On opening the thorax it was found that the right lung was minimally adherent by old firm adhesions. The lower part of the lung was broken and torn away. The left lung was intact. It was adherent at the apex and there were a few adhesions over the side. In the substances of the lung there were several nodules of consolidation.

[Natasha]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

That would make sense if she was indeed the woman Cook was talking to/about.

[FISHY1118]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

S0 are we to believe mary jane kelly had a child in 1887 ? can anyone confirm this .?

[Simon Wood]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

[FISHY1118]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

Really , ,Do tell

[Aethelwulf]

and it is open to debate if the heart was taken from Miller's Court.

I posted this on another thread - press report from the 29th October, prior to Kelly. Could just be a coincidence. If genuine, only reason I can think for the location is frustration at the large police presence in Whitechapel and this was a diversionary tactic to make them look elsewhere. Shame non if these messages were ever photographed.

MORE WRITING ON A WALL.
It is stated that the words, "I shall do another murder and will receive her heart," have been found written in chalk on the footway in Camplin-street, Deptford.

[mpriestnall]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

Au contraire. But she wasn't the Miller's Court victim.

She's in the 1891 census if you know where to look!

[Mark J D]

MORE WRITING ON A WALL.
It is stated that the words, "I shall do another murder and will receive her heart," have been found written in chalk on the footway in Camplin-street, Deptford.

Is that the Camplin Street that still exists ... all the way over in what is now SE14...?!?

M.

[Aethelwulf]

Is that the Camplin Street that still exists ... all the way over in what is now SE14...?!?

M.

That is the only one I can see, south of the river. IF it was genuine it may suggest someone who didn't have any constraints on his time to travel around, had the means to travel about..by horse and cart perhaps...