Mary Kelly at Salvation Army Meeting

[Phil Carter]

Here's a similar report about Catherine Eddowes attending a London City Mission service on Sundays.
A missionary is mentioned. Perhaps this is the one who would later talk about Mary Kelly.

The City Press (London)
Wednesday, 7 November 1888

http:http://www.casebook.org/press_r...p881107.html//

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

[Debra A]

"[Mary Kelly] was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting..."

William Booth, The War Cry (Post #1)

Maybea-Do you happen to know the date of the issue of 'War Cry' this appeared in? I can't see any reference date for it in Peter Stubley's book snippet.

[Lechmere]

In the Booth papers there are accounts of Salvation Army teams going into Lodging Houses to hold services so it is by no means necessary for any service to have been conducted in a mission.

[Tom_Wescott]

Maybea,

Excellent work on this thread.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

exploitation

Hello Bunny. thanks.

I have no problem if this happened. However, there is a big problem if not and this tragic death is merely used for exploitation.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

"[Mary Kelly] was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting..."

William Booth, The War Cry (Post #1)

In an effort to identify Capt. Walker, here are all the SA officers from the list of Career Cards from 1880-1970s. There is only one female - Agnes Walker.

The SA International Heritage Centre has a record of a letter from 2nd Chief of Staff, T Henry Howard, to a Mrs Walker in 1896. Hense, I'm assuming Agnes is very likely married to one of the other Walkers.


http://www.calmview.eu/SalvationArmy...id=SAZ%2F7%2F6

Thanks Maybea.

[MayBea]

I'd go a step further and say that I wouldn't be surprised if she took her spiritual wellbeing from whoever assisted with her physical wellbeing.

I agree with that completely. If she went to any service on Sunday, the Salvation Army was the way to go.

The London City Mission was working with the established churches directly so they wouldn't have had any separate, 'competing', Sunday services.

The fact that James J. Cooke mentioned that Mary showed up on a Sunday rather than during the week makes the Salvation Army story all the more believable.

[MayBea]

"[Mary Kelly] was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting..."

William Booth, The War Cry (Post #1)

In an effort to identify Capt. Walker, here are all the SA officers from the list of Career Cards from 1880-1970s. There is only one female - Agnes Walker.

The SA International Heritage Centre has a record of a letter from 2nd Chief of Staff, T Henry Howard, to a Mrs Walker in 1896. Hense, I'm assuming Agnes is very likely married to one of the other Walkers.

Walker, Agnes
Walker, Albert Edward (Jang Singh)
Walker, David (Sadiq Masih)
Walker, James

http://www.calmview.eu/SalvationArmy/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=SAZ%2F7%2F6

[GUT]

I agree with much of this. It must be remembered we are talking of an East End prostitute. A woman who was under no pressure from her family to attend any specific Church service. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Kelly took her spiritual wellbeing from whomever was offering it. If that organisation was the Salvation Army then so be it, especially if that organisation was offering food/shelter/companionship or a sing song.

I also assume the Salvation Army took care of many non Protestants. Non Protestants may have been underepresented at SA gatherings but I doubt they were rare.

I'd go a step further and say that I wouldn't be surprised if she took her spiritual wellbeing from whoever assisted with her physical wellbeing.

[jason_c]

Hi Mark





I'm afraid I wouldn't discount 30% church attendance as "rare"...ok I understand there just might (and I emphasise that "might") be a difference between what was a reasonable batting average among the emerging middle classes in the more respectable areas, and the East End working classes....but even halve that 30% for the poorer East End...and even 15% isn't "rare"...

This is not to say I altogether accept that religious observance was necessarily scarcer in the East End...then as now, I'd guess many poorer Irish RCs were more observant, in a general sense, than their better-off CofE equivalents, (nearly all my ancestors from this period have Latin Birth/Baptism certificates), and observance among many of the Jewish faith must have been what kept the synagogues going so long...so if a third or a quarter of the population were religious observers, surely attendance can't really be described as rare?

The situation today, in the UK at least, could perhaps be described as rare...but probably not then...

All the best

Dave

I agree with much of this. It must be remembered we are talking of an East End prostitute. A woman who was under no pressure from her family to attend any specific Church service. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Kelly took her spiritual wellbeing from whomever was offering it. If that organisation was the Salvation Army then so be it, especially if that organisation was offering food/shelter/companionship or a sing song.

I also assume the Salvation Army took care of many non Protestants. Non Protestants may have been underepresented at SA gatherings but I doubt they were rare.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Mark

In those days it was rare to attend church and especially in the East End, so keep this in mind when thinking about life in the Nineteenth Century.

Census statistics compared to church attendances put the rate at about 30%. Church attendance became more common in the 20th Century when they had more leisure time

I'm afraid I wouldn't discount 30% church attendance as "rare"...ok I understand there just might (and I emphasise that "might") be a difference between what was a reasonable batting average among the emerging middle classes in the more respectable areas, and the East End working classes....but even halve that 30% for the poorer East End...and even 15% isn't "rare"...

This is not to say I altogether accept that religious observance was necessarily scarcer in the East End...then as now, I'd guess many poorer Irish RCs were more observant, in a general sense, than their better-off CofE equivalents, (nearly all my ancestors from this period have Latin Birth/Baptism certificates), and observance among many of the Jewish faith must have been what kept the synagogues going so long...so if a third or a quarter of the population were religious observers, surely attendance can't really be described as rare?

The situation today, in the UK at least, could perhaps be described as rare...but probably not then...

All the best

Dave

[MayBea]

The only other reports are attributed to the London City Missionary, now identified as Charles Pateman. This would be a first-hand witness report.


Daily News
United Kingdom
12 November 1888

I knew the poor girl who has just been killed... We have had her at some of our meetings, and a companion of hers was one we rescued.

The LCM was established by a number of Protestant denominations so it looks like Mary had no aversion to Protestantism.

I think the question of where to go on Sunday morning might hinge on travel distance, if the SA location happens to be closer.

[Archaic]

Moral Lessons

Hello All. It may be unwise to put too much weight on what may be an apochryphal story.

Hi Lynn. I agree.

According to Peter Stubley's book '1888: London in the Year of the Ripper', the quote from the Salvation Army newspaper, 'The War Cry': "Of course we are taking advantage of this terror, and are doing our utmost to bring the people to repentance. A few are getting saved. It was so sad to hear of the last murdered woman - Kelly - that she was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting and sang from the same hymn book as the captain. Alas! She did not get saved. " was actually an 'appeal' from one of Booth's staff members, James J. Cooke.

Cook was making a desperate appeal to help more East Enders save their souls by turning away from immoral lives and towards God and the Salvation Army. He even says, "we are doing our utmost to take advantage of this terror."

In the 1880s, when Yellow Journalism was the norm, it's not surprising to find apocryphal stories such as this. It was exceedingly common for everyone, ministers, newspaper editors, etc. to seek "moral lessons" within current events.

That's not to say that Booth and Cooke didn't truly wish to "save" people, but simply clarifying that their primary goal was saving souls from Eternal Damnation, not objectively reporting factual news!

Their paper is called 'War Cry' for a reason. All is fair in Love and War, especially a 'War' against Satan.

Mary might have been at the meeting and she might not have been. Perhaps Mary sang hymns with Captain Walker; perhaps not. What we do know is that Booth and Cooke are using the murder of Mary Kelly to deliver a dramatic moral lesson - that she was almost saved from her "life of sin" by the Salvation Army, but unfortunately didn't fully "repent" and change her ways, so died a horrible death at the hands of Jack the Ripper.

It seems to me that if Mary Kelly was actually known to be at the Salvation Army meeting signing hymns shortly before she was murdered that would have been a journalist's dream story and it would have appeared in multiple newspapers, not just the Salvation Army's 'War Cry.'

Does anybody know of any other such reports?

Best regards,
Archaic

[MayBea]

It might be interesting to see how far she'd have to go to attend the SA Sunday service.

Using the Charles Booth online archive, I found only one lodging house in Whitechapel being used by the Salvation Army for services.

SALVATION ARMY LIGHTHOUSE LODGING HOUSE QUAKER STREET

Quaker St. is just north of Hanbury Street so it would have been only a short walk from Millers Court - a quarter mile at most.

[markmorey5]

Census statistics compared to church attendances put the rate at about 30%. Church attendance became more common in the 20th Century when they had more leisure time.