Mary Kelly at Salvation Army Meeting

[MayBea]

The Autumn 1888 editions of The War Cry that mention the Ripper murders are:

13 October, 1888;

17 November, 1888, 'Another Murder';

1 December, 1888, 'Latest Whitechapel Murder'.

... My source is a book called 'Origins of the Salvation Army' By Norman H. Murdoch...Others might want to double check that I've grouped the titles & dates properly. Thanks.

Here are the dates and titles from both Murdoch and Stubley.

13 October, 1888; 'Within the Circle of the Whitechapel Murders'

17 November, 1888, 'Another Murder';

1 December, 1888, 'London Slum Work, The Latest Whitechapel Murder'.

5 January 1889, 'Our Years Retrospective'

[MayBea]

If Stubley is reliable, then we can say the article about "Kelly" at the Salvation Army meeting, singing out of the same hymn book with "Captain Walker", was published on Dec. 1st, 1888.

Of course, this was a second-hand report from Staff-Captain James J. Cooke. A mistake on his part, confusing the "Kellys", is still possible...

I'm having trouble identifying Captain Walker. The Salvation Army was said to be employing a thousand women at the time.

[MayBea]

After I found the list in Jill Rappaport's, Giving Women, I found the specific issue reference in Peter Stubley's, 1888: London Murders in the Year of the Ripper.

Stubley has his footnotes out of order. The footnote for the War Cry article is actually two footnote numbers, two paragraphs down from the quote.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=QZ87AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT122&dq=salvation+army+year+book+1888&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ctU-VMm2EoX4yAS4nYCoCg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=salvation%20army%20year%20book%201888&f=true

http://books.google.ca/books?id=QZ87AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT122&dq=salvation+army+year+book+1888&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ctU-VMm2EoX4yAS4nYCoCg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=126%20cooke&f=false

[Archaic]

'The War Cry', 1888 Ripper Article Titles & Dates

Hi everyone.

The Autumn 1888 editions of The War Cry that mention the Ripper murders are:

13 October, 1888;

17 November, 1888, 'Another Murder';

1 December, 1888, 'Latest Whitechapel Murder'.

Sorry, I haven't had time to look for the text of the articles; just found the dates and titles. My source is a book called 'Origins of the Salvation Army' By Norman H. Murdoch.

*I should mention, the sources are listed in a rather complicated way, so it's a bit confusing to tell which date belong to which title- like a run-on sentence with too many commas and semi-colons! Others might want to double check that I've grouped the titles & dates properly. Thanks.

So that's 1 article shortly after the deaths of Liz Stride and Catherine Eddowes on September 30, and 2 articles shortly after Mary Kelly's death on November 9.

I would expect that the Salvation Army in London (and elsewhere) keeps a library. Maybe somebody can make inquiries?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[MayBea]

Yes, I found Peter Stubley's source in his book and it is the same article. So it is definitely from Dec. 1st.

It is in footnote #126 marked a few paragraphs down from the "Kelly" quote from Stubley's book linked in my first post, Post #1.

[GUT]

Thanks MayBea

[MayBea]

I believe this is the James J. Cooke article from the War Cry. It is dated December 1 so he is probably talking about Mary Jane Kelly.

Staff-Captain Cooke, D.O., "London Slum Work. The Latest Whitechapel Murder," WC December 1, 1888, 4.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=GVlu...=walker&f=true

[MayBea]

Yes. I was thinking exactly the same, Phil. That's why I asked the date of the war cry issue. Many contemporary articles referred to Eddowes as Kelly. In Peter Stubley's book, linked to in the first post, the original quote includes the name 'Kelly' but not 'Mary Kelly'

Archives.org only has the Canadian War Cry, not the London ones. That's why I wasn't able to find the issue in question.

For the England War Cry for 1888, you probably have to go here in person:

William Booth College
Denmark Hill
London
SE5 8BQ

[MayBea]

It seems to me that if Mary Kelly was actually known to be at the Salvation Army meeting signing hymns shortly before she was murdered that would have been a journalist's dream story and it would have appeared in multiple newspapers, not just the Salvation Army's 'War Cry.'

The Dec. 29th, 1888, War Cry has a Captain Walker saying that God was leading her to Canada. She may have got away before the story got around.

I believe she was the one with whom Mary allegedly sang out of the same hymn book. I'll look for more references though to make sure.

https://archive.org/details/war-cry-1888_12_29M

[MayBea]

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up... That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

Just to clairfy, it was the 'Missioner' from the London City Mission, Charles Pateman, who claimed both Eddowes and Kelly sought out the London City Mission.

But the question still remains if either one, or which one, went to the Salvation Army. (Stride attended one of Barnardo's kitchen meetings, I believe, at 32 Flower and Dean.

Both Eddowes and Kelly could have attended one of the LCM meetings at the Mission Hall on Thrawl St.

Pateman had use of the hall once a week and attendance sometimes surpassed a hundred, according to the hard copies of his articles kindly sent to me by the LCM. (London City Mission Magazine, November 1, 1888)

[Debra A]

I'm sorry, Debra, but I don't have a date on that quote from The War Cry.

I gave it a good look on archives.org, from Oct. to Dec. 1888, but some issues are missing, including Dec. 7 with Cooke's article, To Slum Candidates.

Thanks Maybea.

[Bridewell]

Apologies. I forgot to include the AA routefinder link:

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CQueen%20Victoria%20St%7C%7C-0.097490%7C51.512063%7CtoNode=0%7CHoundsditch%7C%7C-0.078861%7C51.515529

[Bridewell]

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

According to the Dickens Dictionary the Salvation Army Headquarters was at 101, Queen Victoria Street. That is quite interesting if Eddowes is the victim referred to here because she was walking in that direction on the afternoon before her demise.

[MayBea]

I'm sorry, Debra, but I don't have a date on that quote from The War Cry.

I gave it a good look on archives.org, from Oct. to Dec. 1888, but some issues are missing, including Dec. 7 with Cooke's article, To Slum Candidates.

Maybea,

Excellent work on this thread.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thanks, Tom. I'm on a bit of a roll here.

I think this is Agnes Walker buried in Abney Park Cemetery with the Booths and other non-conformists.

Walker, Agnes [died] 09 aug 1894 77y 092074 K09 4S04

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....rk/abneyy.html

[Debra A]

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

Yes. I was thinking exactly the same, Phil. That's why I asked the date of the war cry issue. Many contemporary articles referred to Eddowes as Kelly. In Peter Stubley's book, linked to in the first post, the original quote includes the name 'Kelly' but not 'Mary Kelly'