Mary Kelly at Salvation Army Meeting

[MayBea]

Yes. I was thinking exactly the same, Phil. That's why I asked the date of the war cry issue. Many contemporary articles referred to Eddowes as Kelly. In Peter Stubley's book, linked to in the first post, the original quote includes the name 'Kelly' but not 'Mary Kelly'

Archives.org only has the Canadian War Cry, not the London ones. That's why I wasn't able to find the issue in question.

For the England War Cry for 1888, you probably have to go here in person:

William Booth College
Denmark Hill
London
SE5 8BQ

[MayBea]

It seems to me that if Mary Kelly was actually known to be at the Salvation Army meeting signing hymns shortly before she was murdered that would have been a journalist's dream story and it would have appeared in multiple newspapers, not just the Salvation Army's 'War Cry.'

The Dec. 29th, 1888, War Cry has a Captain Walker saying that God was leading her to Canada. She may have got away before the story got around.

I believe she was the one with whom Mary allegedly sang out of the same hymn book. I'll look for more references though to make sure.

https://archive.org/details/war-cry-1888_12_29M

[MayBea]

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up... That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

Just to clairfy, it was the 'Missioner' from the London City Mission, Charles Pateman, who claimed both Eddowes and Kelly sought out the London City Mission.

But the question still remains if either one, or which one, went to the Salvation Army. (Stride attended one of Barnardo's kitchen meetings, I believe, at 32 Flower and Dean.

Both Eddowes and Kelly could have attended one of the LCM meetings at the Mission Hall on Thrawl St.

Pateman had use of the hall once a week and attendance sometimes surpassed a hundred, according to the hard copies of his articles kindly sent to me by the LCM. (London City Mission Magazine, November 1, 1888)

[Debra A]

I'm sorry, Debra, but I don't have a date on that quote from The War Cry.

I gave it a good look on archives.org, from Oct. to Dec. 1888, but some issues are missing, including Dec. 7 with Cooke's article, To Slum Candidates.

Thanks Maybea.

[Bridewell]

Apologies. I forgot to include the AA routefinder link:

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/i...61%7C51.515529

[Bridewell]

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

According to the Dickens Dictionary the Salvation Army Headquarters was at 101, Queen Victoria Street. That is quite interesting if Eddowes is the victim referred to here because she was walking in that direction on the afternoon before her demise.

[MayBea]

I'm sorry, Debra, but I don't have a date on that quote from The War Cry.

I gave it a good look on archives.org, from Oct. to Dec. 1888, but some issues are missing, including Dec. 7 with Cooke's article, To Slum Candidates.

Maybea,

Excellent work on this thread.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thanks, Tom. I'm on a bit of a roll here.

I think this is Agnes Walker buried in Abney Park Cemetery with the Booths and other non-conformists.

Walker, Agnes [died] 09 aug 1894 77y 092074 K09 4S04

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....rk/abneyy.html

[Debra A]

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

Yes. I was thinking exactly the same, Phil. That's why I asked the date of the war cry issue. Many contemporary articles referred to Eddowes as Kelly. In Peter Stubley's book, linked to in the first post, the original quote includes the name 'Kelly' but not 'Mary Kelly'

[Phil Carter]

Here's a similar report about Catherine Eddowes attending a London City Mission service on Sundays.
A missionary is mentioned. Perhaps this is the one who would later talk about Mary Kelly.

The City Press (London)
Wednesday, 7 November 1888

http:http://www.casebook.org/press_r...p881107.html//

Hello all,

The interest for me is two fold as I see it.

1. Eddowes is known to have used the name Mary (Ann) Kelly upon her arrest at Bishopsgate Police Station the evening before her murder.

2. The date of the article is November 7th- (less than) 48 hours before the Kelly murder.

Now when two women basically use the same name, it may be reasonable to get the two mixed up somehow when referring to 'Mary Kelly' in the 2nd article- which appeared (?) after the Dorset St murder. That both Eddowes and Kelly sought out religious contact is not surprising in that day and age. But that both sought out the Salvation Army may well be.

At this moment in time I would believe that both refer to Eddowes- who may have called herself Mary Kelly. Perhaps this (the Nov 7th article) is what Booth and Co were refering to and that it has become jumbled somehow? Just a thought.

Phil

[Debra A]

"[Mary Kelly] was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting..."

William Booth, The War Cry (Post #1)

Maybea-Do you happen to know the date of the issue of 'War Cry' this appeared in? I can't see any reference date for it in Peter Stubley's book snippet.

[Lechmere]

In the Booth papers there are accounts of Salvation Army teams going into Lodging Houses to hold services so it is by no means necessary for any service to have been conducted in a mission.

[Tom_Wescott]

Maybea,

Excellent work on this thread.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

exploitation

Hello Bunny. thanks.

I have no problem if this happened. However, there is a big problem if not and this tragic death is merely used for exploitation.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

"[Mary Kelly] was quite recently on a Sunday morning in a lodging house where Capt Walker and her lieutenant were holding a meeting..."

William Booth, The War Cry (Post #1)

In an effort to identify Capt. Walker, here are all the SA officers from the list of Career Cards from 1880-1970s. There is only one female - Agnes Walker.

The SA International Heritage Centre has a record of a letter from 2nd Chief of Staff, T Henry Howard, to a Mrs Walker in 1896. Hense, I'm assuming Agnes is very likely married to one of the other Walkers.


http://www.calmview.eu/SalvationArmy...id=SAZ%2F7%2F6

Thanks Maybea.

[MayBea]

I'd go a step further and say that I wouldn't be surprised if she took her spiritual wellbeing from whoever assisted with her physical wellbeing.

I agree with that completely. If she went to any service on Sunday, the Salvation Army was the way to go.

The London City Mission was working with the established churches directly so they wouldn't have had any separate, 'competing', Sunday services.

The fact that James J. Cooke mentioned that Mary showed up on a Sunday rather than during the week makes the Salvation Army story all the more believable.