'oh Murder'

[Ginger]

Everytime somebody enters my home with a knife, you soon hear him cry "Oh murder !"
And then the voice of my Baikal.

This is why no-one ever gifts you a cutlery set for Christmas.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi David

No, Natasha, I'm merely saying that "Oh murder !" was a common cry at the time and didn't necessarily mean somebody was being murdered

Hoo bloody ray...at least there's two of us listening...

All the best

Dave

[Dave O]

Here's a contemporary example from Macdonald's records at the LMA of someone crying out "Murder" when faced with violence. On 17 October 1888 in Tottenham, Henry Elliott shot his brother-in-law Thomas Norris (or Morris) before turning on the gun upon himself and committing suicide. At the time of the inquest, Norris was still alive in the hospital having taken a serious wound to his temple.

From the inquest record at the LMA, John Norris, turf-dealer and nephew to both men:

"On 17th inst. I was at work with my uncle Thomas Norris in Mount Pleasant Field, turf cutting, it was a thick fog. I heard Norris cry out Murder three times. I then heard 2 reports of firearms in succession."

An aside--the Daily News reported on the 18th: "It is believed, too, that deceased had carried the revolver about with him for some time, and that he availed himself of the fog which prevailed yesterday morning to carry out his intention to commit murder and suicide. The shocking affair created a great sensation in the neighbourhood, and all kinds of rumours connecting it with the Whitechapel horrors were circulated."

Best,
Dave

[DRoy]

Just out of curiosity, if there was a cry of 'oh murder' on the night of MJK's death, why did no one take it more seriously?

Natasha,

I don't believe I've welcomed you to the boards yet. Welcome!

Perhaps some would have taken more notice if it was screamed three times but not very loudly?

Seriously though, it would be impossible to prove it had been cried out unless the person that said it came forward (other than MJK) ...no matter how much it may have been believed. As Dave has mentioned, it seems it was used as more slang as opposed to the literal sense.

Cheers
DRoy

[MrBarnett]

Hello MrB. Thanks.

Or perhaps, "Go away or I taunt you a second time-uh"? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

I couldn't have put it better myself!

Cheers,

MrB .

[GUT]

And of course the French "Medre" was common.

[lynn cates]

Hello MrB. Thanks.

Or perhaps, "Go away or I taunt you a second time-uh"? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Lynn,

How about, 'Ooh, matron!'

MrB

[lynn cates]

castle

Hello Mr B.

"Could it have been aargh, murder?"

No, Aargh is a famous castle housing a very old relic. (heh-heh)

cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hopefully I'll never have to find out, but I'd imagine 'Nooo!' or 'Help!' would be my initial reaction. I don't know... I have a hard time imagining that even some wealthy 19th century dowager would cry 'Oh murder!' if she was attacked in her home, let alone a harlot living in the ass-end of London.

Everytime somebody enters my home with a knife, you soon hear him cry "Oh murder !"
And then the voice of my Baikal.

[MrBarnett]

Could it have been aargh, murder?

[DVV]

So what you saying?

The cry was just an exaggeration for the press?

No, Natasha, I'm merely saying that "Oh murder !" was a common cry at the time and didn't necessarily mean somebody was being murdered - far from it. Cadosh is the only man to have "heard" a Ripper murder, actually. And he never heard such a cry. Not to say that Kelly's last word wasn't this "Murder !" - it's possible, if not likely, since two witnesses suggested so. Three, if you add Diddles.

All the best

[Cogidubnus]

It would appear that "Oh Murder" was a common exclamation or expression of surprise back in the LVP - a bit similar to "Bloody Hell" or "Oh ****" in later times

I suspect someone being surprised by a knife wielding killer might only get time, if they were lucky, for a scream...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

used

Hello Natasha. Thanks.

That's true. And also, they were used to such screams.

Cheers.
LC

[Harry D]

What would you cry, Harry ? I wanna know !

Hopefully I'll never have to find out, but I'd imagine 'Nooo!' or 'Help!' would be my initial reaction. I don't know... I have a hard time imagining that even some wealthy 19th century dowager would cry 'Oh murder!' if she was attacked in her home, let alone a harlot living in the ass-end of London.