Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim?

[c.d.]

Perhaps her routine was so erratic that she would have done so can't see her turning a client away .

Especially if it was a client she knew.

c.d.

[GUT]

Especially if it was a client she knew.

c.d.

Even more so if he was a good payer you know 1s rather than 6p.

[c.d.]

Even more so if he was a good payer you know 1s rather than 6p.

Hello GUT,

...and especially if he had been buying her drinks earlier in the day or that week which I think is what happened. With Barnett out of the way she might have been looking for a Sugar Daddy of sorts and said come see me any time you want.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I do like the idea of him buying her drinks while he subtly found out about her living arrangements and her neighbors and assessed how safe he would be in her apartment. It just feels right somehow.

c.d.

[GUT]

I do like the idea of him buying her drinks while he subtly found out about her living arrangements and her neighbors and assessed how safe he would be in her apartment. It just feels right somehow.

c.d.

Well nothing wrong about it anyway.

[c.d.]

You sure know how to flatter a person, GUT.

c.d.

[GUT]

You sure know how to flatter a person, GUT.

c.d.

Was that flatter or flatten?

[lynn cates]

sequence

Hello CD. Thanks.

"How do you know how deeply Mary was sleeping?"

Very well. If the adjective troubles you, sleep then.

"And why wouldn't she open the door to a client if the visit had been prearranged?"

No problem here. But, again--as I observed LONG ago--are we to assume that she is undressing for bed whilst her client is standing there fully clothed? But if NOT fully clothed, did she remark, "My, ducky, what a sharp knife you have"?

I am merely seeking a coherent sequence of events--and which does not strain, overmuch, our credibility.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

6' 7"

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"I have to give you credit."

High time. (heh-heh)

"You seem to know much more about women than me."

Oh, well, age and experience, you know.

"I would think that a woman suddenly awakened from sleep and seeing an uninvited man in her room who might not be immediately identifiable might let out a scream. But that's just me."

I was thinking about identifiable. Something like, "Ah! 'High Pockets'! It's you. Come in. And mind you dip your head." (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

layout

Hello Mike.

"No-one has to fumble around making pointless suggestions about whether he sneaked in an open window. . ."

Of course, to be able to do this, he would need to know the layout. Hence, an acquaintance.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Oh, well.

Hello Jason. Thanks.

"Perhaps her routine was so erratic that she would have done so can't see her turning a client away."

Something along the lines of, "Eeek! A strange man! Oh, I see what you're about. Well, since you're here . . ."?

Cheers.
LC

[pinkmoon]

Hello Jason. Thanks.

"Perhaps her routine was so erratic that she would have done so can't see her turning a client away."

Something along the lines of, "Eeek! A strange man! Oh, I see what you're about. Well, since you're here . . ."?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,If Kelly was in arrears with the rent and facing the prospect of been made homeless in the middle of winter I think we could safely assume she would be a little on the desperate side a gentleman turning up at her door offering her a larger than usual fee might tempt her to take the risk and let him in.

[Michael W Richards]

Trouble with that is, a boozy-woozy "oh-murder" could scarcely have been noticeable to either Prater or Lewis. It must have been at least a mezzo-forte exclamation for the sound to carry in either direction. A sforzando utterance wouldn't have possessed the requisite energy.

Actually Sam I believe it was heard by Mrs Prater as being "faint", when Sarah thought it was at her front door...which leads to a long held conclusion Ive had that the call was from that courtyard and IF from Mary, she was at her open door when she exclaimed it.

To answer your question cd, why couldn't this have been a client....because there was no vocal exchange heard, just the exclamation, and based on her state of sobriety when she likely fell asleep around 1:30, I suspect that some words would have been exchanged between the 2 of them. Plus nothing was heard after that, which supports my contention that in her annoyed and boozy state of being awake she just padded back to bed, and left room on the side of the bed for whomever she let in. She fell back asleep on her right side facing the wall...where she is when attacked.

Does this mean the man and her were lovers? Well....we know that Mary was seeing another "Joe" while she was with Joe, we don't know who he is, people assume Fleming.

I know of a Joe that moved into her immediate neighbourhood just after Barnett left and then disappeared the night she dies, leaving his belongings behind.

Which leads me to wonder about him, or other Joes that Mary might have been mixed up with.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Lynn,If Kelly was in arrears with the rent and facing the prospect of been made homeless in the middle of winter I think we could safely assume she would be a little on the desperate side a gentleman turning up at her door offering her a larger than usual fee might tempt her to take the risk and let him in.

Mary Kelly was almost 3 weeks behind in her rent payments, and she has been evicted from other residences before for doing the exact same thing. She preferred to accept money rather than to work the streets for it, when that money dries up...she moves on. My take on her anyway. In addition, there is no precedent for Mary being known to bring any client into her room in the courtyard to sell her sexual favours. In fact one person we do know went into her room with her was serenaded for over an hour.

So....we know that Mary runs arrears regularly, and we know she didn't have a reputation for bringing clients home...and we also know that she didn't do so when Barnett lived there 8 days earlier.

Mary wasn't stressed about her arrears...the argument has no weight Pinkmoon...we also has evidence to the contrary.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

McCarthy

Hello Jason. Thanks.

McCarthy seems not to be overly demanding.

Cheers.
LC