Finding more out about MJK

[Natasha]

Natasha,

Mary Kelly was a completely different social class to Lillie Langry. The Kellys were just one of the poor many thousands of irish families who emigrated either to Wales England or America after the famine.
Lizzie Albrook made the comment that' Mary had sad she had a relative on the stage in London'
There were thousands of music hall performers in England travelling around the country. She may have had a relative who was one of those.

Miss Marple

Hi Miss Marple

I did admit that it was a far fetched idea.

Yes it appears she was from a different social class, but why would it be preposterous to think that someone from a higher class would find themselves down and out? Rich kids of today are prone to slumming it, as a way of rebelling.

You are right in the fact that there were many people who had access to the theatre and to add theatre was associated with prostitutes. My next step will be to research some of the less affluent theatre performers.

[miss marple]

Many of the music hall performers changed their names, Some were irish. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially as we do not know if Kelly was Mary's real name. My great grandmother was a music hall artist and I traced her career through The Era, the stage newspaper that listed every gig througout the country. Music hall artists were very skilled and worked extremely hard.
There were professional high class prostitutes who hung out in London Theatres such as the Empire and Alhambra to pick up wealthy punters. They would parade in their finery.

In London their was a music hall circuit, with performers appearing regularly at the same halls.depending on the management. They also toured the rest of the country.
It is impossible, as we have no verification as to Mary's genealogy and any relative may not have the same name. Had she been connected to someone well known, she would have mentioned it, as she did romanticise her life and an important connection would have been exploited by her.

Slumming is not the same thing as the kind of life Mary led. It was visiting a music hall or brothal in a poor part of town, and going back to your comfortable life. Middle class children did not rebel by going to live in the east end unless they became engaged with some kind of social work or joining the salvation army. See Shaw's play Major Barbara which discusses those conflicts.

Miss Marple

[MayBea]

I always thought there might be something to the "female relation on the stage". It doesn't fit in with the usual stories of six brothers, iron workers, mine explosions and soldiers.

My favorite possibility was Jessie Bond. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessie_Bond
Of course, relation could be a loose term or even someone distantly related by marriage so not a blood relation.

[miss marple]

I dont see what Jessie Bond has to do with Mary Kelly. Is she put foward to to support a theory that Mary came from Liverpool?
Anyone can pluck any name out of the air . It is meanless speculalation as we have no proof as to who MK was, never mind she she may have known on the stage. There are thousands of candidates.

Miss Marple

[MayBea]

Yes, Jessie Bond was born in London but raised in Liverpool so she would be a logical choice to look at for any MJK candidate from Liverpool. I don't consider it "plucking it out of the air."

I do believe the story of Mary Kelly going to London with someone or following someone, or at least knowing people in London prior to her arrival.

Jessie was, before she was 17, engaged to someone named William, whom I thought might be a Liverpool MJK's brother. Jessie's William followed her to London in the late 1870s, I believe. But I found out William Kelly married in 1865 when Jessie was 12 and went to Australia in 1866.
http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/books/bond/001.html

How would you look for Mary? Do you work from the witness reports of what Mary claimed about her origins and look for candidates? Or do you do as I do - find a candidate and then see how well she fits the unproven and questionable claims?

[MayBea]

I know this may seem far fetched, but could Kelly have a connection to Lillie Langtry (real name Emilie Charlotte Le Breton)?....
Obviously this daughter wasn't Kelly, but the name Kelly used was similar.

Langtry and MJK are featured in Toughill's book on artist Frank Miles as Jack. http://www.amazon.ca/The-Ripper-Code.../dp/0752452762

[Rosella]

Miles was a friend of Oscar Wilde when they were young, weren't they, and, talk about six degrees of separation, didn't Wilde pretend he was desperately in love with Lillie? I still just can't see any link though between MJK and Lillie Langtry.

[Natasha]

Langtry and MJK are featured in Toughill's book on artist Frank Miles as Jack. http://www.amazon.ca/The-Ripper-Code.../dp/0752452762

Thanks MayBea, I will have to read that.

[Bridewell]

Has this lass been looked at?

There's a Mary Keily, but she's about the right age to be MJK (19 in the 1881 census) and born in Ireland. Lives in Kensington (48, Norland Square) and employed as a nursemaid.

[Amanda]

Spelling?

Hi Bridewell,

Is the name spelled KEILY in the census or did you make a spelling mistake?

Amanda

[MayBea]

Name: Mary Keily
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Kensington

(Possible marriage)
Marriages Jun 1884
Grevatt Oswald Woolwich
Keily Mary Ann Woolwich
LANGHAM Margaret Woolwich
Sullivan Michael Woolwich

[Bridewell]

Hi Bridewell,

Is the name spelled KEILY in the census or did you make a spelling mistake?

Amanda

The spelling was intentional (Keily). It's transcribed on Ancestry (I think correctly looking at the original image). I just wondered if she was a possible who hadn't been picked up because of the unusual spelling.

[MayBea]

In Ancestry Search, Keily won't come up even in a broad filter for Kelly or Keeley.

So she was probably missed. I can't find her after 1888 except maybe a Mary Keily in London in 1911 born in Dublin in 1859.

[DJA]

I The founder of the famous Parisian brothel, le Chabanais, used by the Prince of Wales was a Madame Kelly (almost certainly not her real name). If a girl wanted to hide herself in the East End it would have been the most obvious of names to use.
Prosector

Madame Kelly's actual surname was Joannet.

[DJA]

The question is.....did Mary Ann Kelly accompany a gentleman to Paris and return as Marie Joannet Kelly.

Another St. Leonard's C of E member changed her name to Marie Lloyd.

We know her links to landlords and Hanbury Street.