Mary Kelly. Where Else Can We Look?

[Disco Stu]

Tale of two cities

There's the difference between Leicester and London; we don't mind digging up dead celebrities.

Has anyone looked on Scotlandspeople yet?

[Sally]

Hi Jeff.

The most prohibitive factor must be the cost.
As her relatives are untraceable then I'm not sure who's signature is required to grant permission.

If you could get a University involved it would legitimize the process. I say this because I can imagine the onslaught of negative comments about those 'nutcase' Ripperologists are now desecrating a grave, etc.

No UK University will get involved with that Jon. I take your point entirely, but it would never happen. If Kelly was to be disinterred, the justification would have to be good enough.

Here's a link to the Ministry of Justice website that explains how to go about obtaining permission to disinter:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...emains-faq.pdf

Just in case anybody's interested.

[Bridewell]

Thanks, Sally. I can't imagine that a disinterment will ever be allowed but who knows? The irony is that there must be a family somewhere whose great-great aunt Mary (or whatever) disappeared in the 1880's and was never heard from again. I think our best hope is that someone will one day have a 'Eureka' moment and put his or her ancestor's name into the frame.

[Robert]

I would imagine that the only opportunity would come if the remains had to be reburied at a lower level, or something like that. There is a grave shortage (if you'll forgive the expression) of burial space and there has been talk that certain cemeteries might re-use graves. If Leytonstone ends up being one of them, then there might be an opportunity.

[Mayerling]

Well while it is gratifying to see my suggestion got some attention, I remind you that I had my doubts too about whether it could be done. Two decades ago President Zachary Taylor's corpse was disinterred when a relative suggested he'd been poisoned in 1850 during a major political crisis (that led to the "Compromise of 1850"). Taylor was opposed to the compromise plan of Henry Clay, but was threatening to personally lead an army into any states that threatened secession. His Vice President (Millard Fillmore) was willing (if President) to sign any compromise legislation to avoid Civil War. Taylor died suddenly of an illness (probably intestinal) after drinking iced mild and eating cherries on a hot July day. Hence the suspicion of poisoning. But the modern autopsy found no proof or disproof of poisoning (supposedly arsenic).

I believe the two best known disinterment cases were that of Mrs. Armstrong in 1922 (which led to her husband Major Armstrong's conviction for her murder), and the weird Druce - Portland Case of 1908, where a wealthy merchant named Thomas Druce was dug up to prove he was not a former Duke of Portland.

In all those cases the government interest was heavy and family permission was granted in Druce - Portland and the Taylor matters.

Jeff

[sdreid]

Well, the 125th anniversary of Mary Kelly's murder is this coming Saturday.

[John Wheat]

Mary Jane Bury

I know this is going to sound like a crackpot idea and it probably is and is pure speculation but I wonder what the possibility of Mary Jane Kelly and Mary Jane Bury, Ripper suspect William Henry Bury's sister were one and the same. Mary Jane Kelly is shrouded in mystery and there are no records for Mary Jane Bury after 1871 and although Mary Jane Kelly claimed to be 25 in 1888 and Mary Jane Bury would be 31. Many people claim to be younger than they actually are and many 31 year olds could pass for 25.

[lynn cates]

Has anybody here seen Kelly?

Hello John. That's a thought.

Of course, the investigation must regard BOTH correct spelling and location. So I'd suggest:

1. K-e-double l-y.

2. The Isle of Man.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

I know this is going to sound like a crackpot idea and it probably is and is pure speculation but I wonder what the possibility of Mary Jane Kelly and Mary Jane Bury, Ripper suspect William Henry Bury's sister were one and the same. Mary Jane Kelly is shrouded in mystery and there are no records for Mary Jane Bury after 1871 and although Mary Jane Kelly claimed to be 25 in 1888 and Mary Jane Bury would be 31. Many people claim to be younger than they actually are and many 31 year olds could pass for 25.

Hi, John,
Now that's an interesting idea . . . and would explain the overkill on MJK.

Combine that with the fact that Eddowes might have been a cousin (the Evans line) and that the two families lived close to each other in Wolverhampton . . .

Both women would have known far more about William Henry Bury's background than he could allow . . . .

It would sure make a good book -- or screen play.

curious

[John Wheat]

It would sure make a good book -- or screen play.
curious

To Curious

I agree it would make a good book or a screenplay. For the latter it would make a nice change from the usual Jack the Ripper Royal Conspiracy films.

Cheers John

[Penhalion]

Interesting idea. I have a few questions about it though. Mary Jane Bury disappears from record (apparently) in 1871 but MJK doesn't appear in record until a couple of years before her murder. So what was she doing for the 10-12 years that are missing? If she had been out of the public records, does that mean she was also out of contact with Bury during that time? If so, then the last significant contact she had with him would have been when he was a child so what could she possibly know about him that would make her a danger to him? Having both worked in brothel and married a prostitute, he doesn't show signs of being 'down on whores', so what would his motive for killing be? The apparent cause of his wife's murder was disputes over money.

[miss marple]

There was a Mary Jane Bury who got married in Birmingham in 1880 sept 6d 150. Might be worth looking at.

Miss Marple

[John Wheat]

Having both worked in brothel and married a prostitute, he doesn't show signs of being 'down on whores', so what would his motive for killing be? The apparent cause of his wife's murder was disputes over money.

To Penhalion

We don't know what Bury felt about prostitutes. Judging from the abuse to Ellen Bury possibly not a great deal. We also don't know why Bury murdered Ellen.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

To Miss Marple

Thanks for the reply. The Mary Jane Bury who got married in Birmingham in 1880 could be the same Mary Jane Bury as WH Bury's sister.

Cheers John

[Paddy]

Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 forMary Jane Bury

MaryJane Bury aged 24 Of Camden Street (Birmingham?) married Rueben Barnes, aged 20, a Jeweller, at St Pauls Birmingham on August 23rd 1880.
Her father was Henry Bury a Fishmonger.
Witnesses Joseph Henlay and Charlotte Barnes.


Pat............................................... ....