Cry of "Oh, murder!"

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

i lean toward those were the cries of mary as she was being attacked. One of the sheets was cut through as if the killer had placed the sheet over her face and cut her neck through the sheet. perhaps this gave her just amount of time to cry out before being silenced.
and yes cries of murder were apparently common, but still, two witnesses heard it around the same time sounding like from a woman and near or from her room and around possible time of death, and in fact coinciding with a woman being murdered there.

I would also attach credence to the testimony that someone was heard leaving Miller's Court at 5.45 a.m., which tallies roughly with the medical evidence that the mutilations took about two hours to perform.

I did once put these points - about 4 a.m. and 5.45 a.m. - to our friend Christer Holmgren, but he dismissed the witnesses as liars and attention-seekers.

There is no doubt that some of the testimony is unreliable, but those two timings seem credible to me, because of the medical evidence.

[Aethelwulf]

I would also attach credence to the testimony that someone was heard leaving Miller's Court at 5.45 a.m., which tallies roughly with the medical evidence that the mutilations took about two hours to perform.

I did once put these points - about 4 a.m. and 5.45 a.m. - to our friend Christer Holmgren, but he dismissed the witnesses as liars and attention-seekers.

There is no doubt that some of the testimony is unreliable, but those two timings seem credible to me, because of the medical evidence.

I think the ~4am cries of murder, referred to as that of a young woman and in the court were very likely Kelly. Whilst I can imagine cries of murder being common around pub chucking out time (blotchy sort of time) would that be true at 4 am? Surely most of the late night drinkers were gone and it seems like the pubs didn't open again until 5.30. People up at that time were probably just head down, minding their own business on their way to work. Other thing I noticed was on that very good post showing the AI enhanced photo of Kelly's room, Dorset street doesn't seem visible from the cut to the court - it seems like a decent distance. Would an unrelated cry of murder on Dorset Street have been easily heard?

I doubt the two hours time. Given what he did to Eddowes in less than 10 minutes, and a likely fear of being cornered in Kelly's room, I'd be surprised if he was there over half an hour.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I think the ~4am cries of murder, referred to as that of a young woman and in the court were very likely Kelly. Whilst I can imagine cries of murder being common around pub chucking out time (blotchy sort of time) would that be true at 4 am? Surely most of the late night drinkers were gone and it seems like the pubs didn't open again until 5.30. People up at that time were probably just head down, minding their own business on their way to work. Other thing I noticed was on that very good post showing the AI enhanced photo of Kelly's room, Dorset street doesn't seem visible from the cut to the court - it seems like a decent distance. Would an unrelated cry of murder on Dorset Street have been easily heard?

I doubt the two hours time. Given what he did to Eddowes in less than 10 minutes, and a likely fear of being cornered in Kelly's room, I'd be surprised if he was there over half an hour.

Don't you think that because he was indoors and the quiet in Kelly's room would cause the other residents to think she was sleeping, he would have taken his time?

It was a completely different situation from Mitre Square, with policemen arriving about every 15 minutes.

What do you think of the evidence about someone leaving at 5.45?

[Wickerman]

Which evidence is that?, we have Cox saying someone left the court about 6:15.
Nothing about 5:45.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Which evidence is that?, we have Cox saying someone left the court about 6:15.
Nothing about 5:45.

I got it from Wikipedia's entry for Mary Jane Kelly and it cites Evans and Rumbelow, p. 179; Evans and Skinner, p. 371; Marriott, p. 169 as saying that Cox testified that she 'thought she heard someone leaving the residence at about 5:45 a.m'

But when I look at the inquest record, as published in the Daily Telegraph, it has the 6.15 you mention, and nothing about it coming from 'the residence'.

[Wickerman]

I think the ~4am cries of murder, referred to as that of a young woman and in the court were very likely Kelly. Whilst I can imagine cries of murder being common around pub chucking out time (blotchy sort of time) would that be true at 4 am? Surely most of the late night drinkers were gone and it seems like the pubs didn't open again until 5.30....

We have scoured the newspapers and found a few isolated reports of 'cries of murder'. In two cases that I recall, both were suspected burglaries, or a woman who suspected she was about to be burgled. It was a favorite phrase used instead of shouting 'help, police!'.
Crying 'oh, murder', has a tendency to bring anyone passing whereas simply shouting for police doesn't always bring out your neighbors.

One detail I have never seen mentioned is a point reported in the Daily News. That Prater has mentioned she sat up all night, that she heard the cry of murder just before 4 AM, but shortly before the cry she had heard a row in the court.
No-one else mentions this 'row'.
I wonder what was going on.

[Wickerman]

I got it from Wikipedia's entry for Mary Jane Kelly and it cites Evans and Rumbelow, p. 179; Evans and Skinner, p. 371; Marriott, p. 169 as saying that Cox testified that she 'thought she heard someone leaving the residence at about 5:45 a.m'

But when I look at the inquest record, as published in the Daily Telegraph, it has the 6.15 you mention, and nothing about it coming from 'the residence'.

Right, the 5:45 is taken from the original inquest record, so it is correct.
The press didn't always capture the exact same testimony.

[Wickerman]

I thought I should clarify my first comment in the previous post. I meant 5:45 is correct in so far as that is what was recorded, not that it was the correct time.
I'm sure you have noticed, most if not all the press accounts gave 6:15. Discrepancies to this extent are unusual, quite often some press reporters will hear what the court recorder heard, while others may hear something slightly different. In this case it would appear all the press heard quarter past six, whereas only the court recorder heard quarter to six.
What time Cox actually said I suspect will never be known.