It wasnt Kelly theory

[Wickerman]

The official line was the Miller's Court victim was the partner of Barnett. The partner who shared No 13 for x number of months.

It wasn't. Like Varqm said the name is immaterial.

It wasn't?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon S.,

If Kelly really was Kelly, by now Debra Arif would have tracked her down.

Simon

[mpriestnall]

I think it's kind of redundant to argue whether the body was really Kelly, when Kelly wasn't really Kelly anyway.

The official line was the Miller's Court victim was the partner of Barnett. The partner who shared No 13 for x number of months.

It wasn't. Like Varqm said the name is immaterial.

[Wickerman]

The argument is who was the dead woman in Millers Court, the one Barnett lived with or not. It has little to do with names.

I think it's kind of redundant to argue whether the body was really Kelly, when Kelly wasn't really Kelly anyway.

[The Baron]

Can't possibly contradict Joseph Barnett, Kelly it was.

The best post in this thread!



The Baron

[Aethelwulf]

Annie seemed quite distraught, and claimed she was attacked by Jack the Ripper, as her throat was lightly cut and bleeding. The crowds of George Street once again thought the Ripper had struck and gone free, and it wouldn't be long before panic overtook reason.

The police, however, were skeptical of her claims, as her injury was quite superficial and done with a blunt blade, quite unlike the Ripper's deep wounds with a sharp weapon. And once it was discovered that she was hiding coins in her mouth, it was concluded she had attempted to steal from the man and, once discovered, lightly brushed her own throat with a blunt knife and screamed "Murder!" at her client, accusing him of being Jack the Ripper. The man, understandably frightened due to the very salient possibility of lynching, left as quick as possible.

So as not to derail a new thread have a look at the Bury's neck thread where we discussed this and concluded that it was Bury.

[mpriestnall]

Hi Martyn!

I thought you might have some input on this thread!

Quite. I can resist anything but temptation...

[mpriestnall]

Yes but that was Norman Galileo the stand up comedian for Rochdale.

Very good!

[Varqm]

All that means is he identified a woman who went by the name Kelly, not that it was her true name.

The argument is who was the dead woman in Millers Court, the one Barnett lived with or not. It has little to do with names.

[Wickerman]

Following on from another post/thread

Hi wulfy
Lord orsam did an analysis of the Marice Lewis and maxwell sightings of Kelly, and if Im not mistaken, concluded that Lewis was not reliable and was probably parrotting maxwell and or news accounts....

M.Lewis's account was in the Friday evening papers, whereas Maxwell's did not appear in print until Saturday. Though I do agree there is something amiss with Lewis's account. It was Maxwell who went for milk, not Kelly. So, rather than Lewis being confused about who he saw, I would look to the reporter who messed up his reporting and confused a sighting of Maxwell with that of Kelly.

[Wickerman]

Can't possibly contradict Joseph Barnett, Kelly it was.

All that means is he identified a woman who went by the name Kelly, not that it was her true name.

[Wickerman]

Throw in Occam's Razor on top of all those "dunnos" and the conclusion is that it was MJK. That should be the default position until proven otherwise.

c.d.

Then wouldn't we have found her in some records, somewhere?

[GBinOz]

From The Echo 10 Nov 1888:

Many persons who have been interviewed, state that the unfortunate woman never left her house at Dorset-street after she had entered it on Thursday night, while, on the other hand, numerous persons, who declare that they were companions of the deceased and know her well, state that she came out of her house at eight o'clock on Friday morning for provisions, and furthermore, that they were drinking with her in the Britannia, a local tavern, at ten o'clock on the same morning as her mutilated body was found at eleven.

The circumstances connected with the tragedy are more mysterious than ever. Some persons have reiterated the statement that the unfortunate woman was seen between eight and nine o'clock yesterday morning. One of her companions, more positive than the rest saw Mary Jane Kelly at nine o'clock, and the officers of justice are this afternoon inquiring into the truth or otherwise of the woman's assertion. From the nature of the mutilations and the loss of blood the doctors can only form a very vague idea as to the time when death actually occurred. If, as assured, the crime actually took place in daylight time, the miscreant could only have completed his work - which, it is calculated, could scarcely have been done in less time than an hour - a few minutes before the ghastly discovery was made.

[GBinOz]

As you know, I'm very strongly of the opinion Farmer was a botched attempt, and that puts a different light on the morning ToD.

Annie seemed quite distraught, and claimed she was attacked by Jack the Ripper, as her throat was lightly cut and bleeding. The crowds of George Street once again thought the Ripper had struck and gone free, and it wouldn't be long before panic overtook reason.

The police, however, were skeptical of her claims, as her injury was quite superficial and done with a blunt blade, quite unlike the Ripper's deep wounds with a sharp weapon. And once it was discovered that she was hiding coins in her mouth, it was concluded she had attempted to steal from the man and, once discovered, lightly brushed her own throat with a blunt knife and screamed "Murder!" at her client, accusing him of being Jack the Ripper. The man, understandably frightened due to the very salient possibility of lynching, left as quick as possible.

[GBinOz]

Three interesting points:

1. The police considered Millers Court to be a daylight murder.

2. Abberline questioned Maxwell and stated that he "was unable to break her".

3. Times 12 Nov 1888:
Mrs. Maxwell further stated that after that she went into Bishopsgate-street to make some purchases, and on her return saw Kelly talking to a short, dark man at the top of the court. When asked by the police how she could fix the time of the morning, Mrs. Maxwell replied, "Because I went to the milkshop for some milk, and I had not before been there for a long time, and that she was wearing a woollen cross-over that I had not seen her wear for a considerable time". On inquiries being made at the milkshop indicated by the woman her statement was found to be correct, and the cross-over was also found in Kelly's room. Another young woman, whose name is known, has also informed the police that she is positive she saw Kelly between half-past 8 and a quarter to 9 on Friday morning.

Cheers, George