How close have people gotten

[Wickerman]

In his police statement Barnett told Abberline that she had resorted to prostitution to make ends meet, because he failed to provide enough money. Then she took a woman in who was also a prostitute, so he left.

So, I ask, why do we not hear from that woman?

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

So,why did Barnett leave?

I guess it must have been hard for him to share that cramped little room with other unfortunates. He and Mary had no privacy left.

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

In his police statement Barnett told Abberline that she had resorted to prostitution to make ends meet, because he failed to provide enough money. Then she took a woman in who was also a prostitute, so he left.

So, I ask, why do we not hear from that woman?

You mean "Julia"? She never came forward, am I right?

[DJA]

There are at least three versions.

[Wickerman]

You mean "Julia"? She never came forward, am I right?

Well, most think this Julia was Maria Harvey. It's just that Harvey claimed to have stayed with Mary on the previous Monday & Tuesday, but this woman referred to as 'Julia' by Barnett he claimed shared the room with him & Kelly in the nights previous to him leaving, which was on 30th Oct.
So, thats a bit of confusion.
Likewise, Harvey claims to have been with Joe & Mary on Thursday 8th Nov., but at the inquest Barnett didn't identify the women as Harvey, yet they knew each other & were in the same court.

So, is it really confirmed that Harvey was 'Julia'?
Both claimed to have left two shirts in the room.

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

Well, most think this Julia was Maria Harvey. It's just that Harvey claimed to have stayed with Mary on the previous Monday & Tuesday, but this woman referred to as 'Julia' by Barnett he claimed shared the room with him & Kelly in the nights previous to him leaving, which was on 30th Oct.
So, thats a bit of confusion.
Likewise, Harvey claims to have been with Joe & Mary on Thursday 8th Nov., but at the inquest Barnett didn't identify the women as Harvey, yet they knew each other & were in the same court.

So, is it really confirmed that Harvey was 'Julia'?
Both claimed to have left two shirts in the room.

It may have been her. The fact that "Julia" was apparently never identified makes you think she was actually Maria Harvey and the two shirts thing seems too much of a coincidence, but then again I don't get the reason why Joe didn't say that "Julia" and Harvey were one and the same.

[Pcdunn]

It may have been her. The fact that "Julia" was apparently never identified makes you think she was actually Maria Harvey and the two shirts thing seems too much of a coincidence, but then again I don't get the reason why Joe didn't say that "Julia" and Harvey were one and the same.

I see your point, but it is possible Joe simply didn't know Maria by any name other than Julia. I get the impression that Whitwchapel denizens could play loose with names, nicknames, and monikers. Particularly if they were a bit on the shady side.

We do get the impression that Mary and Joe fought often and hard, and I don't think it was without violence, nor always about Mary being a streetwalker.

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

I see your point, but it is possible Joe simply didn't know Maria by any name other than Julia. I get the impression that Whitwchapel denizens could play loose with names, nicknames, and monikers. Particularly if they were a bit on the shady side.

We do get the impression that Mary and Joe fought often and hard, and I don't think it was without violence, nor always about Mary being a streetwalker.

Yes, it's plausible. He would have learnt her real name at the inquest though, wouldn't he? So why not saying Maria was "Julia"? Maybe it wasn't that relevant and the press didn't report it. I concur... After all, we know that Mary was quarrelsome when intoxicated and that she and Joe were often drunk. As to Barnett beating her, I seem to remember that Mary told one of her associates (maybe Maria Harvey or Julia Venturney) that he was good to her, whereas "the other Joe" (Flemming?) ill-used her for living with Barnett. I wonder if Joe Barnett knew that he used to visit Mary and treat her badly. If so, perhaps it was one of the reasons why they fought hard.

[clark2710]

The problem is, the Catholic church won't allow her remains to be searched for. I'm Italian and unfortunately I know a thing or two about Catholicism, being a lapsed Catholic myself. Catholics believe that the dead mustn't be "disturbed" and their remains disinterred.

Are there no exceptions?

[tanta07]

The real answer is no-one can claim they have found her 100%.

It simply cannot be achieved without some kind of DNA proof.

My candidate is Welsh girl Mary Thomas who was born in 1863 in Carmarthen, Wales. Her story I have tracked so far has unearthed very close similarities to the stories MJK herself gave to people including Barnett. It is an ongoing investigation, but I am confident I can answer most of those qestions around the clues to her identity.

My Mary had a few sisters, so I plan to at some point try and trace their lines as close as I can to a living relative for their mDNA. Then,we just need MJK's DNA. Which actually after all this, may yet prove to be the toughest challenge of all. I am not the only searcher, and neither is DJA.

Maybe one of us will get lucky at some point.

Dr. Turi King went pretty far down this road a few years back, before getting discouraged by many issues. She wrote an entire paper on it, but this article provides some of the main issues.

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-jack-ripper-victim.html

[Wickerman]

The woman's enigmatic existence continues in death, as it did in life.

[Losmandris]

The high definition blowup of MJK2 does show two teeth that are likely to be false teeth.

I'd be interested in seeing that. You must have some good eyes!

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

The woman's enigmatic existence continues in death, as it did in life.

It does, indeed.

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

I'd be interested in seeing that. You must have some good eyes!

Me too. I can't spot them.

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

Are there no exceptions?

Only if disinterring a murder victim or someone who died a suspicious death's remains can lead to the solution of the case. I doubt that many people would agree to go that far in order to solve a 132 year-old mystery.