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Mary Kelly's Right Arm

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  • #16
    Anterior Shoulder Dislocation
    An anterior dislocation accounts for 97% of recurrent or first time dislocations. It is the most common dislocation and is caused by the arm being positioned in an excessive amount of abduction and external rotation. In this position, the inferior glenohumeral complex serves as the primary restraint to anterior glenohumeral translation.[2] Due to a lack of ligamentous support and dynamic stabilization, the glenohumeral joint is most susceptible to dislocation in the 90 degree abduction and 90 degree external rotation.

    Clinical Presentation


    Anterior Dislocation

    Following an acute anterior glenohumeral dislocation (Figure 5):

    a. Arm held in an abducted and ER position
    b. Loss of normal contour of the deltoid and acromion prominent posteriorly and laterally
    c. Humeral head palpable anteriorly[2]
    d. All movements limited and painful
    e. Palpable fullness below the coracoid process
    and towards the axilla[1]


    Just to get things in perspective regarding cause and effect.
    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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    • #17
      Originally posted by richardh View Post

      ...I'll say it again and with 100% conviction that the right arm was fully attached to the truck and the killer made no attempt to remove it or any other limb.
      Richard, I'm fine with your conviction. Had her right arm been severed to any degree I would expect it to have been mentioned. Early press reports also mentioned her head had been removed, that is also not supported by any evidence either.

      As I said before, we seem to assume the photo of the body on the bed captures what witnesses first saw on entering the room. However, press reports indicate otherwise. Several doctors conducted a preliminary examination on the body prior to sending for a photographer.

      I think we can safely assume that conducting a preliminary examination involves more than them just standing back with their hands in their pockets.
      As a consequence, her right arm is described by Dr. Bond in one position, but later, after the examination, the photographer captures the arm in a different position. A doctor had moved her arm.
      The photographer was not brought in to capture the evidence prior to an investigation as might be done today. Forensic investigation had not evolved to that level in the late 19th century.
      Last edited by Wickerman; 11-21-2020, 03:00 PM.
      Regards, Jon S.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

        Richard, I'm fine with your conviction. Had her right arm been severed to any degree I would expect it to have been mentioned. Early press reports also mentioned her head had been removed, that is also not supported by any evidence either.

        As I said before, we seem to assume the photo of the body on the bed captures what witnesses first saw on entering the room. However, press reports indicate otherwise. Several doctors conducted a preliminary examination on the body prior to sending for a photographer.

        I think we can safely assume that conducting a preliminary examination involves more than them just standing back with their hands in their pockets.
        As a consequence, her right arm is described by Dr. Bond in one position, but later, after the examination, the photographer captures the arm in a different position. A doctor had moved her arm.
        The photographer was not brought in to capture the evidence prior to an investigation as might be done today. Forensic investigation had not evolved to that level in the late 19th century.
        Reports on the time of photography are mixed, so I don't feel it's possible to be certain. However, the Telegraph 10 Nov does say that "Before anything was disturbed a photograph was taken of the interior of the room"

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        • #19
          MJK2_Hi_4x.png (PNG Image, 2308 2896 pixels)

          Contrast on this is very good.
          Right thumb shows up well,if you magnify on you PC screen.
          Last edited by DJA; 11-21-2020, 04:50 PM.
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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          • #20
            It DOES look like her thumb, It COULD be her right thumb. I don't think it is her right thumb.
            ---------------------------------------------------
            JtR3D.com JtR 3D Blog
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            • #21
              The contrast on this one is "darker" than your previous effort.
              Using 120" 1080p blown up an additional 40%.
              Thumb is similar shade as her left hand, and the thumbnail and thumb shape are reasonably defined.
              Mary's left eye shows up better in your previous photo,she seems to have light blue eyes.
              Last edited by DJA; 11-21-2020, 05:40 PM.
              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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              • #22
                Its interesting that the discussion here is about her right arm...which in any image Ive seen does seem to be out of the shoulder socket,.. because there was some experience with just a right arm in early that September. The Pimlico discovery.
                Michael Richards

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by richardh View Post
                  It DOES look like her thumb, It COULD be her right thumb. I don't think it is her right thumb.
                  Yes, I can see what you're saying. This would certainly reconcile the photograph with Bond's notes if that's not her arm we are looking at.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                    Reports on the time of photography are mixed, so I don't feel it's possible to be certain. However, the Telegraph 10 Nov does say that "Before anything was disturbed a photograph was taken of the interior of the room"
                    Yes, you notice that quote comes at the end of a lengthy report of the scene and all the prior activity. I suspect "before anything was disturbed" refers to the removal of the body to the mortuary.
                    https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../dt881110.html
                    The scene was photographed before the body was removed.
                    Regards, Jon S.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                      Yes, you notice that quote comes at the end of a lengthy report of the scene and all the prior activity. I suspect "before anything was disturbed" refers to the removal of the body to the mortuary.
                      https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../dt881110.html
                      The scene was photographed before the body was removed.
                      You left out the interesting part of the news ......

                      Curiously enough, the warehouse at No. 26, now closed by large doors, was until a few weeks ago the nightly resort of poor homeless creatures, who went there for shelter. One of these women was Catherine Eddowes, the woman who was murdered in Mitre-square.
                      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DJA View Post

                        You left out the interesting part of the news ......

                        Curiously enough, the warehouse at No. 26, now closed by large doors, was until a few weeks ago the nightly resort of poor homeless creatures, who went there for shelter. One of these women was Catherine Eddowes, the woman who was murdered in Mitre-square.
                        The "warehouse" you refer to was the shed which was accessed directly off Dorset St and below Elizabeth Praters room. Where you got the Eddowes sleeping there bit is I assume just another one of your "just for the jolly" points. Funny how often you post things it seems only you know about. Hmm.
                        Michael Richards

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                        • #27
                          I was obviously,well to most people here,referring to the newspaper that Wicky had posted.

                          You'd have to actually read it.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                          • #28
                            Worthless. As I suspected.
                            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DJA View Post
                              I was obviously,well to most people here,referring to the newspaper that Wicky had posted.

                              You'd have to actually read it.
                              Ok, so I did re-read it and the last line of the relevant passage mentions Eddowes. Without any validation from anyone or any source. Wonder why there is no mention Eddowes wasnt even in town a few weeks earlier, or that her and John Kelly supposedly were together virtually every night before then.
                              Michael Richards

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                              • #30
                                That day's edition was a good enough source for Wickerman to refer to.

                                You have no idea of English comprehension.

                                I didn't write it,only thought it was an interesting read,as "there was a tradition that Eddowes stayed at Dorset Street".

                                Argument - YouTube
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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