Room 13 Miller's Court

[Sam Flynn]

There you go Gareth wriggling and improvising again.

I am not doing so in the least, Stewart - I like to think that I have more integrity than that.

If there are reasonable grounds for revisiting erstwhile-held beliefs (which I myself share with everybody else, I hasten to add) about the position of Prater's room, then I see no harm in doing so. In fact, it's only right that we do - if it makes sense. In this case I believe it does.

Yours affectionately, etc.

[Stewart P Evans]

'Good Old Boy'

I am not doing so in the least, Stewart - I like to think that I have more integrity than that.

If there are reasonable grounds for revisiting erstwhile-held beliefs (which I myself share with everybody else, I hasten to add) about the position of Prater's room, then I see no harm in doing so. In fact, it's only right that we do - if it makes sense. In this case I believe it does.

Yours affectionately, etc.

I do not for a moment suggest that you are doing anything underhanded Gareth,* in fact it is good to raise such points as this erroneous report in the Daily Telegraph of 10 November 1888 as it causes one to examine things that may have been ignored in the past. Your point is valid.

However, there comes a time, surely, when one should modify one's opinions or fall in with what is becoming overwhelmingly obvious. To this end I shall be starting a separate thread on this aspect as I feel that this particular thread is not the place to discuss a different subject to that of the thread. It is tangential and was raised after I posted an image showing 'Prater's window.'

* I actually know that Gareth is a 'good old boy' as we say in these parts and it must be obvious to all that he is highly intelligent and very likeable. (This is fact, not false flattery).

[perrymason]

Hello,

I just want to say that Ive discussed this issue with Sam before, and if anyone was shoving the ideas down the others throat, it was me. Because Ive always held the belief that Elizabeth could hear Mary sometimes both inside and outside of #13. In recent months Ive come to suspect that "oh-murder" was uttered by Mary, in annoyance, while her door was open. I feel it may be the most compelling evidence that she was in her room at that time answering the door, not entering through it from the court.

But I felt badly knowing that my post caused any friction between anyone, however brief. I disagree with Sam on somethings, and its nice of my Welsh friend to even bother addressing those comments, but he always maintains an even-keel perspective. As do posters such as our thread starter.

Best regards all.

[perrymason]

Just one last thing before work......I had to laugh out loud after posting my comments and realized that with our post system of promotions, I'm a Detective and Mr Evans is a Constable.

Talk about mislabeling. Like finding Ketchup in a Peanut Butter Jar.

Cheers all.

[Stewart P Evans]

Newbie

Just one last thing before work......I had to laugh out loud after posting my comments and realized that with our post system of promotions, I'm a Detective and Mr Evans is a Constable.
Talk about mislabeling. Like finding Ketchup in a Peanut Butter Jar.
Cheers all.

Hey, I'm the newbie in these parts.

It's all very well to speculate, surmise, debate, opinionate, throat-shove &c &c. But I do like facts, in as much as we have any facts in this case. Anyway, migrate to the other thread I am starting to discuss the 'Prater's room' issue.

[Sam Flynn]

Stewart,

Your kind words are appreciated and are fully reciprocated in every respect.

Good idea about another thread. See you all there later

[perrymason]

It just goes to show that there are more things one can learn here than just names and dates and cuts and slashes...like how to construct a valid argument for debate. Im learning....slowly....

I will join that later today Stewart, thank you PC Evans....carry on.

My best regards.

[John Casey]

One thing I've always wondered about. People talk about there being a "partition" between Kelly's room and the rest of the house. Is there any evidence for this? I'm just trying to imagine why you would NEED a partition. If the room was the original parlour of the main house, there would already be a dividing wall, right? So all you'd need to do would be to block or lock the connecting door. Or am I missing something so obvious that I'll kick myself when it's pointed out to me!!?

[Sam Flynn]

One thing I've always wondered about. People talk about there being a "partition" between Kelly's room and the rest of the house.

Hi John,

As far as I know, it might well have covered only that part of the room where the entrance to the parlour had once been. I don't think it's mentioned anywhere that the partition occupied the entire length of the room.

[paul emmett]

One thing I've always wondered about. People talk about there being a "partition" between Kelly's room and the rest of the house. Is there any evidence for this?

Hi, John, Sam.

There's the "26" on the back "wall," which supports what both you and Sam are saying.

[Dan Norder]

Some people think they see a 26 on the back wall... but of course some people think they see an "FM," and a crown and/or cross, and all manner of other writing back there.

[Sam Flynn]

Actually, whether there's a number there or not - the implication being that the partition contained a recycled front door - it doesn't really help us decide whether the partition extended further than the width of the parlour doorway. There might have been four or five such panels "daisy-chained" together along the full length of the southern "wall"

[John Casey]

Just had a thought....Liz Prater said she could see light coming through the wall as she walked upstairs to her flat, so I wonder if the partition was built to accomodate the staircase? Presumably if there was a family living at the front of the house (not quite sure on that point) they wouldnt want Elizabeth traipsing into their house to get to her flat upstairs....which begs the question, where was the entrance that she would have used? But that I suppose is technically not a question about Room 13, maybe there should be a seperate thread for that one...

[Stephen Thomas]

One thing I've always wondered about. People talk about there being a "partition" between Kelly's room and the rest of the house. Is there any evidence for this? I'm just trying to imagine why you would NEED a partition. If the room was the original parlour of the main house, there would already be a dividing wall, right? So all you'd need to do would be to block or lock the connecting door. Or am I missing something so obvious that I'll kick myself when it's pointed out to me!!?

Yes, John, there was a partition, made of wood and two storeys high. Behind it was a staircase, not originally part of the house, that allowed access for tenants to the upper floors of #26 after the ground floor became 'The Shed', a storeroom for costermongers' barrows.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

For as long as I can remember the 'bed' side wall of Room 13 has been referred to as a partition wall, and various accounts have described it as constructed from 'matchwood'—interlocking 'tongue and groove' strips of wood still used today.

Anyway, the upshot appears to be that the wall was of an improvised nature, put up to create a discrete living space.

If my geography of 26 Millers Court is correct, directly on the other side of the partition wall was the staircase leading to the upstairs floors.

How does a flimsy partition wall support a staircase? And what supported the staircase before the partition was put up?

Regards,

Simon