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Was MJK really Mary Thomas?

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  • Was MJK really Mary Thomas?

    I am aware there are some excellent researchers and geneology buffs here - and I am just a mere amateur. I want to share my theory and initial findings so that someone far more expert and qualified than I can tell me to stop wasting my time. I think at this stage I'm going down more rabbit holes than a champion beagle.

    The Theory
    • Mary Jane Kelly is in actual fact Mary Thomas born in 1864 (according to 1871 census Carmarthan, Wales)
    • Her father was John Thomas born in 1839 (according to 1871 census)
    • Mother Phoebe Thomas nee Lloyd (born in 1836)
    • She had only one brother as far as I can tell and his name was John Thomas (I believe is Johnto) and he was born in 1862
    • A John Thomas from Carmarthenshire join the Welsh Guards in 1903 aged 39
    • Mary had a number of sisters Elizabeth (born 1860), Hannah (1867) and Jane (1869)
    • There is a marriage between Mary Thomas & William Davies in 1879 in Chepstow witnessed by Lizzie Jane Thomas (sister I hope) and John Thomas (father or brother) but strange it was in Chepstow where it doesnt appear where either the Bride of Groom lived there from what I can tell. She would have been around 16 and he would have been around 33. Marriage on a Thursday - is that usual?
    • William Davies was killed in the 1880 Risca mine explosion and many assumed James Davies would be the more likely candidate but the newspapers in South Wales the following days claimed he was single
    • There maybe some kind of Irish connection as a John Thomas was arrested for being drunk in Limerick City in 1872 who claimed his residence was South Wales - haven't investigated anything beyond that so far
    This where I am at with it so far, and whilst there are a few interesting threads to pull I have no idea if I am wasting my time here.

    Any expert opinion on this will be most welcome.
    Last edited by erobitha; 07-31-2020, 06:23 PM.
    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

  • #2
    Hello Erobitha,

    I would say go for it but I would also wonder as to the purpose and what could be gained. Even if you could show that MJK was in fact Mary Thomas can you make any sort of connection showing that her killing was not random but in fact had to do with her background?

    Seems like you have your work cut out for you.

    c.d.

    Comment


    • #3
      Should we try and see if we can adequately identify her first and go from there?
      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by erobitha View Post
        Should we try and see if we can adequately identify her first and go from there?
        By all means.

        c.d.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by erobitha View Post
          I am aware there are some excellent researchers and geneology buffs here - and I am just a mere amateur. I want to share my theory and initial findings so that someone far more expert and qualified than I can tell me to stop wasting my time. I think at this stage I'm going down more rabbit holes than a champion beagle.

          The Theory
          • Mary Jane Kelly is in actual fact Mary Thomas born in 1864 (according to 1871 census Carmarthan, Wales)
          • Her father was John Thomas born in 1839 (according to 1871 census)
          • Mother Phoebe Thomas nee Lloyd (born in 1836)
          • She had only one brother as far as I can tell and his name was John Thomas (I believe is Johnto) and he was born in 1862
          • A John Thomas from Carmarthenshire join the Welsh Guards in 1903 aged 39
          • Mary had a number of sisters Elizabeth (born 1860), Hannah (1867) and Jane (1869)
          • There is a marriage between Mary Thomas & William Davies in 1879 in Chepstow witnessed by Lizzie Jane Thomas (sister I hope) and John Thomas (father or brother) but strange it was in Chepstow where it doesnt appear where either the Bride of Groom lived there from what I can tell. She would have been around 16 and he would have been around 33. Marriage on a Thursday - is that usual?
          • William Davies was killed in the 1880 Risca mine explosion and many assumed James Davies would be the more likely candidate but the newspapers in South Wales the following days claimed he was single
          • There maybe some kind of Irish connection as a John Thomas was arrested for being drunk in Limerick City in 1872 who claimed his residence was South Wales - haven't investigated anything beyond that so far
          This where I am at with it so far, and whilst there are a few interesting threads to pull I have no idea if I am wasting my time here.

          Any expert opinion on this will be most welcome.
          Looks interesting, ticks quite a few boxes if the people turn out to be the same individuals.

          When you write for instance “a John Thomas” it’s clear you don’t know if it’s the same guy.
          but does the lack of “a” mean you’ve ascertained that the individuals are the same, e.g. is the Davies marrying the same as the guy dying?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
            Looks interesting, ticks quite a few boxes if the people turn out to be the same individuals.

            When you write for instance “a John Thomas” it’s clear you don’t know if it’s the same guy.
            but does the lack of “a” mean you’ve ascertained that the individuals are the same, e.g. is the Davies marrying the same as the guy dying?
            ...which is why I need some expert help :-)
            "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
            - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by erobitha View Post

              ...which is why I need some expert help :-)
              Ah, ok

              Sorry. I can only be an expert if you propose Danish origins for MJK. Maybe try finding a Marie Jensine Knudsen who moved to Wales? Then I can help!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                Should we try and see if we can adequately identify her first and go from there?
                Well, it's often said that she's out there somewhere. Good luck with the research, let us know if you find anything interesting.
                I'm not going to link to it, or such....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Excellent work, a very good candidate there. I doubt you could go further without said expert genealogy.

                  Let's face it, ultimately you need MJK's DNA profile. You only need it once. With that, a living descendent then needs to be identified and tested.

                  Unless there are unlimited funds for this many questions will remain unanswered sadly.

                  With all the millionaires in the world you'd think at least one would be a ripperologist lol!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by peg&pie View Post
                    Excellent work, a very good candidate there. I doubt you could go further without said expert genealogy.

                    Let's face it, ultimately you need MJK's DNA profile. You only need it once. With that, a living descendent then needs to be identified and tested.

                    Unless there are unlimited funds for this many questions will remain unanswered sadly.

                    With all the millionaires in the world you'd think at least one would be a ripperologist lol!
                    At Least one is.....Patricia Cornwell. In the broadest interpretation of Ripperologist anyway.
                    Michael Richards

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                      At Least one is.....Patricia Cornwell. In the broadest interpretation of Ripperologist anyway.
                      I thought we were all millionaires? Isn't that why we keep the gravy train rolling along despite numerous successful conclusions to the case? I only got into the game for the money!
                      I'm not going to link to it, or such....

                      Comment

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