Partition wall

[Phil H]

miakaal

There is MUCh debate about the precise time of kelly's death.

It had, of course to be before Bowyer found her, but there are views on EARLY, LATE and IT WASN'T HER.

EARLY - based on things like Mrs Prater, medical estimates of time of death (complicated by the way her body had been deconstructed and thus may have cooled faster.

Also George Hutchinson's observations - in themselves somewhat controversial.

LATE - sightings of MJK relatively late in the morning in the britannia pub, with Lewis and also the difficult to evaluate conversation with Mrs Maxwell.

NOT her - relates to the last (mrs M) and the fact that the body was in such a state. Was MJK SEEN so late because it was not her who was killed earlier?

Others will give you much more exact information, I'm sure.

Phil H

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Phil

I'm glad to see you worded that as "more exact" rather than "more accurate"...

Wasn't there an old thread where somebody fairly authoritatively set down on paper the suggested layout of the McCarthy Houses and the tenements in the court? There may indeed have been a couple...but I just had a quick look under Victims MJK and Scenes of Crime and can't find the wretched things...Always the way!

All the best

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

Just a reminder that the people who stated that they saw Mary Kelly alive after she entered her room just before midnight were either warned at the Inquest that their testimony disagrees with virtually all the facts and the other statements, and in the case of GH, he was found to be less than reliable.

There is no witness that was believed by the officials to have seen Mary after that time by the end of that Inquest week.

The estimated TOD isnt an insurmountable issue when considering that fact.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

Read somewhere on this thread that Kelly was killed after 4am. I thought
Dr Bond said between 01.00 and 02.00am? I have not read much about the time of death and was unaware it was much later. Anyone know the prob time and why?

Ok, well, the first important point is that there was no official time of death established at the conclusion of the Inquest.
Macdonald (the Coroner) should have allowed Dr. Phillips to complete his conclusions from the official autopsy which would have included his opinion of the time of death. This did not happen.

There is a press report given in the Times on Nov. 12th, before the Inquest began, where Dr. Phillips is reported to have claimed that Mary Kelly died 5-6 hrs before he arrived at Millers Court, therefore approx. 4:45-5:45 am.

On the 10th, Dr. Bond, in a report given to Robert Anderson, estimated Kelly's time of death to have been between 1:00-2:00 am, based on a calculation of the degree of digestion of her stomach contents.
This calculation depends when Kelly ate her last meal. Dr. Bond would have needed to ask the police when this was, but where the police gained this information from is not known.

That is a summary of what might be deemed the near-official sources presently available, hence the wide ranging debate on the subject.

Add to this are the claims of Sarah Lewis and Mrs Kennedy who both claimed to have heard the cry of "murder" about 3:45 am, and Prater who initially suggested a similar time but then corrected herself to "shortly after 4:00 am".

Also, an erroneous opinion was printed in the press (Star) suggesting her death occurred "shortly after three o'clock", this conclusion was arrived at, they say, by collating the evidence given at the Inquest by Dr. Phillips, Mrs Cox and Mrs Prater.
A simple perusal of the Inquest testimony immediately dispels this conclusion.

So there you have it.

Regards, Jon S.

[Gene Lewis]

Dunno... for all I know she might've been quite loud...

All the best

Dave

re-LOL !

Gene