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Identity of Mary Jane Kelly

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  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

    Hi Al,



    In November, 1888, Joe Barnett claimed he had lived with MJK for about 18 months and before that she is supposed to have spent time in the West End and then in Pennington Street and so on in the East End for some time.

    The MJW highlighted by Prosector was sentenced to a month’s hard labour at Cardiff on 5th July, 1887 and was said to have been imprisoned for two months previously for keeping a house of ill-fame in Blackweir (Cardiff).

    On the face of it the two stories don’t seem to match, but who knows?

    Gary

    Good points there Gary. Interestingly, Elizabeth's husband tried to kill himself by cutting his throat. That'll be a code 73.

    Leave a comment:


  • c.d.
    replied
    Hello Prosector,

    Nice to see that you are back. I always enjoyed your posts and thought them quite informative. Please continue to stay on the boards and contribute.

    c.d.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

    Hello again MrB,

    Probably in your field, what if the offences were committed in Cardiff, hence prosecuted in Cardiff? Maybe MJK was skipping bail in Whitechapel?
    Hi Al,



    In November, 1888, Joe Barnett claimed he had lived with MJK for about 18 months and before that she is supposed to have spent time in the West End and then in Pennington Street and so on in the East End for some time.

    The MJW highlighted by Prosector was sentenced to a month’s hard labour at Cardiff on 5th July, 1887 and was said to have been imprisoned for two months previously for keeping a house of ill-fame in Blackweir (Cardiff).

    On the face of it the two stories don’t seem to match, but who knows?

    Gary


    Leave a comment:


  • TheTypeWriter
    replied
    Hi there, I haven't read your book so I can't really pass comment but I intend to read it soon, I think it will be a comforting thing to know that she was once part of a family and probably loved and happy at a time, I have always felt so dreadfully sad for her when I read about her and it would be nice to know perhaps she didn't always have a hard life.

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
    Surely the July, 1887 date of the Cardiff court appearance is at odds with the evidence of Kelly having been in the East End since 1885 and living with Barnett since early 1887.
    Hello again MrB,

    Probably in your field, what if the offences were committed in Cardiff, hence prosecuted in Cardiff? Maybe MJK was skipping bail in Whitechapel?

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Bundy's Eyes
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

    Or perhaps the DNA evidence doesn’t require an exhumation?
    This would be the MJK exhumation that has been deemed highly improbable if not impossible by the University of Leicester team? I'd be interested to hear any alternatives that are non exhumation based, but ultimately it's the remains in the ground that matter. ( Like if someone was buried under one name, but was actually someone else entirely, say Henry Maxwell to make one up at random).

    I recall reading the Weston Davies research at the time, really interesting work and a DNA match would solve (by Ripperology standards) that identity question. Wouldn't prove who killed her though. Still, it was good sleuthing. I hope he does have something new in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

    Hi Prosector,

    Very interesting.

    I see an announcement had been placed in the County of Middlesex Independent in December, 1884.

    I have ancestors/family members buried at St Patrick’s. Please keep us updated with developments in connection with the exhumation.


    Gary

    Or perhaps the DNA evidence doesn’t require an exhumation?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Surely the July, 1887 date of the Cardiff court appearance is at odds with the evidence of Kelly having been in the East End since 1885 and living with Barnett since early 1887.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abby Normal
    replied
    Originally posted by Prosector View Post
    As many of you know, I have spent much of the last 30 years trying to prove that MJK was my great aunt Elizabeth Weston-Davies or Craig as she was married to Francis Spurzheim Craig. Two additional snippets of evidence: Craig, who was editor of the East London Advertiser placed an announcement of the marriage in the ELA on 3rd January 1885 which shows that he was fully aware of the identity and antecedents of his new wife. Many people have speculated about the fact that MJK told Joe Barnett that she had been introduced to prostitution by relatives in Cardiff. On 7th July 1887 a Mary Jane Weston aged 23 appeared at Cardiff Magistrates Court charged with keeping a disorderly house at Irwin Street, Cardiff. She was jointly charged with a woman named Davies. Elizabeth's elder sisters and brother had all been born in or near Cardiff and the Weston Davieses had relatives there who included Elizabeth's first cousin Ivor Novello and his mother Clara Novello Davies (her father Jacob Davies was elder brother of Elizabeth's brother Edward's wife Margaret). I think this adds more weight to MJK actually being Elizabeth Weston Davies. Final proof will have to await DNA evidence which I hope will be forthcoming within the next 12 months.

    Prosector
    hi prosector
    welcome back. very interesting and best of luck with your research.

    now i order you to stay active on these boards as your medical expertise is direly needed! : )

    Leave a comment:


  • MrBarnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Prosector View Post
    As many of you know, I have spent much of the last 30 years trying to prove that MJK was my great aunt Elizabeth Weston-Davies or Craig as she was married to Francis Spurzheim Craig. Two additional snippets of evidence: Craig, who was editor of the East London Advertiser placed an announcement of the marriage in the ELA on 3rd January 1885 which shows that he was fully aware of the identity and antecedents of his new wife. Many people have speculated about the fact that MJK told Joe Barnett that she had been introduced to prostitution by relatives in Cardiff. On 7th July 1887 a Mary Jane Weston aged 23 appeared at Cardiff Magistrates Court charged with keeping a disorderly house at Irwin Street, Cardiff. She was jointly charged with a woman named Davies. Elizabeth's elder sisters and brother had all been born in or near Cardiff and the Weston Davieses had relatives there who included Elizabeth's first cousin Ivor Novello and his mother Clara Novello Davies (her father Jacob Davies was elder brother of Elizabeth's brother Edward's wife Margaret). I think this adds more weight to MJK actually being Elizabeth Weston Davies. Final proof will have to await DNA evidence which I hope will be forthcoming within the next 12 months.

    Prosector
    Hi Prosector,

    Very interesting.

    I see an announcement had been placed in the County of Middlesex Independent in December, 1884.

    I have ancestors/family members buried at St Patrick’s. Please keep us updated with developments in connection with the exhumation.


    Gary


    Leave a comment:


  • Prosector
    started a topic Identity of Mary Jane Kelly

    Identity of Mary Jane Kelly

    As many of you know, I have spent much of the last 30 years trying to prove that MJK was my great aunt Elizabeth Weston-Davies or Craig as she was married to Francis Spurzheim Craig. Two additional snippets of evidence: Craig, who was editor of the East London Advertiser placed an announcement of the marriage in the ELA on 3rd January 1885 which shows that he was fully aware of the identity and antecedents of his new wife. Many people have speculated about the fact that MJK told Joe Barnett that she had been introduced to prostitution by relatives in Cardiff. On 7th July 1887 a Mary Jane Weston aged 23 appeared at Cardiff Magistrates Court charged with keeping a disorderly house at Irwin Street, Cardiff. She was jointly charged with a woman named Davies. Elizabeth's elder sisters and brother had all been born in or near Cardiff and the Weston Davieses had relatives there who included Elizabeth's first cousin Ivor Novello and his mother Clara Novello Davies (her father Jacob Davies was elder brother of Elizabeth's brother Edward's wife Margaret). I think this adds more weight to MJK actually being Elizabeth Weston Davies. Final proof will have to await DNA evidence which I hope will be forthcoming within the next 12 months.

    Prosector
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