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  • Exhumation

    Of all of the victims of the Ripper the least is known about Mary Jane Kelly herself. My question, i don't mean any disrespect, but could they not exhume her body, get some dna, and find her family that way? That way she has people to visit and family to say hi to her when they're in the area so to speak. I mean it may sound silly but even after all this time her spirit may rest a little more soundly so to speak.

  • #2
    Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
    Of all of the victims of the Ripper the least is known about Mary Jane Kelly herself. My question, i don't mean any disrespect, but could they not exhume her body, get some dna, and find her family that way? That way she has people to visit and family to say hi to her when they're in the area so to speak. I mean it may sound silly but even after all this time her spirit may rest a little more soundly so to speak.
    Not sure that would qualify as a valid reason for exhumation. Also, despite grave markers suggesting otherwise, the exact location isn't known and graves aren't single occupancy like we believe.
    As is, there was a decent theory done by someone who identified an ancestor as being a good candidate for Mary, he never got DNA and the mystery continues.
    Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
      Of all of the victims of the Ripper the least is known about Mary Jane Kelly herself. My question, i don't mean any disrespect, but could they not exhume her body, get some dna, and find her family that way? That way she has people to visit and family to say hi to her when they're in the area so to speak. I mean it may sound silly but even after all this time her spirit may rest a little more soundly so to speak.
      I may be wrong but I am sure that some of the academics who discovered Richard IIIs remains did a feasibility study (possibly supported by Patricia Cornwall?) around digging up the remains for a DNA test. Their conclusion was that it would be near impossible to do, even if the permission was the appropriate authorities was given.

      Tristan

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

        I may be wrong but I am sure that some of the academics who discovered Richard IIIs remains did a feasibility study (possibly supported by Patricia Cornwall?) around digging up the remains for a DNA test. Their conclusion was that it would be near impossible to do, even if the permission was the appropriate authorities was given.

        Tristan
        University of Leicester, The Mary Kelly Project. It was led by the same professor. They estimated going through 400 sets of remains.
        Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

          I may be wrong but I am sure that some of the academics who discovered Richard IIIs remains did a feasibility study (possibly supported by Patricia Cornwall?) around digging up the remains for a DNA test. Their conclusion was that it would be near impossible
          Correct. Basically, the earth in the cemetery has been disturbed so often in the intervening years that it we just don't know where Kelly's remains really are. Some of us have visited the memorial plaque showing roughly where she was originally buried, but we don't know precisely where she ended up.

          You can read the Leicester University team's report here: https://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/ge...ectFeb2017.pdf
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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          • #6
            The Mad Trapper was exhumed but it didn’t prove anything except that all the main theories of who he was were wrong. Every DNA comparison excluded the donor as a relative. The other science such as tissue and isotope analysis may or may not be of help.

            They could just put the raw data on GEDmatch but for some reason they haven’t or haven’t said. That would solve it or narrow it down considerably.

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            • #7
              But without an exhumation or a GEDmatch, everyone has the opportunity to do some forensic genealogy.

              The Trapper said he was from Sweden, Norway and Denmark. By comparison, Mary Kelly should be easy.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Trapperologist View Post
                But without an exhumation or a GEDmatch, everyone has the opportunity to do some forensic genealogy.

                The Trapper said he was from Sweden, Norway and Denmark. By comparison, Mary Kelly should be easy.
                All your looking for are Welsh folks named Davies and Irish Kellys!
                Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

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                • #9
                  If they can't narrow down where she was buried or whose bones are whose, this is a complete non-starter.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                    If they can't narrow down where she was buried or whose bones are whose, this is a complete non-starter.
                    Yep. The graveyards within Metropolitan London have layers and layers of deceased, many with poorly marked graves. Particularly the ones that catered to paupers.
                    Michael Richards

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

                      Correct. Basically, the earth in the cemetery has been disturbed so often in the intervening years that it we just don't know where Kelly's remains really are. Some of us have visited the memorial plaque showing roughly where she was originally buried, but we don't know precisely where she ended up.

                      You can read the Leicester University team's report here: https://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/ge...ectFeb2017.pdf
                      I believe Sam that even that memorial plaque was moved sometime in the dim & distant. You are totally right to describe it as a memorial plaque rather than a gravestone as it certainly isn't where he body was laid to rest.

                      I would certainly recommend a visit to St Patrick's if you can clark; the location of the memorial plaque is around on here somewhere but it isn't too difficult to find. PM me for directions if you need them.

                      I try to visit on the anniversary of her murder and leave some flowers but I always find myself silently thinking "who were you"? Like the WM himself, we will probably never know.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                        All your looking for are Welsh folks named Davies and Irish Kellys!
                        At least we know she's of Irish descent. Only question would be North or South and where in England or Wales her family immigrated. We all have enough of a sense of the history of the British Isles to make a guess, if you think she fibbed on her origins. I think that's where she re-invented herself along with the name Marie Jeanette. So I would discount that and all the drama like mine explosions and soldiers.

                        With the Trapper, you have four possible countries of origin, of which he claimed three, and most of us have very little off-hand knowledge of those nationalities, races and their movements. Then he said he was raised in the US and ended up in Canada, and he was a bushman who evaded at least one census taker by running off in the snow. Mary always seemed to have a room available.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trapperologist View Post
                          At least we know she's of Irish descent.
                          Do we? Is that a given do you think? All we know of is a story given, and nothing in that story about her origins has been substantiated to-date.

                          Michael Richards

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                          • #14
                            You’re right although it’s a fair bet since she and no one else with or without Irish background disputed it. The Swedes disputed the Trapper’s Swedishness. Mary didn’t spend much or any time in Ireland so, for all intensive purposes, she English and her records would be in England, or Wales. We don’t know when or if the Trapper came to the US and exactly when he came to Canada.

                            In the belief that to get somewhere you have to start somewhere, I’m all for the exhumation of Joseph Fleming to see if he’s really the great grandfather of MJW’s great granddaughter who came up as a cousin match with JF’s fourth cousin on AncestryDNA.

                            CAA0FE8B-A087-499B-BA5C-12033D4430F8.jpeg






                            Last edited by Trapperologist; 10-31-2019, 04:01 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trapperologist View Post
                              The Mad Trapper was exhumed but it didn’t prove anything except that all the main theories of who he was were wrong. Every DNA comparison excluded the donor as a relative. The other science such as tissue and isotope analysis may or may not be of help.

                              They could just put the raw data on GEDmatch but for some reason they haven’t or haven’t said. That would solve it or narrow it down considerably.
                              Since the capture of the Golden State Killer, i've become very familiar with familial dna matching over the websites and such. The key there is knowing that the body is her, for instance, lets say she was buried in a paupers grave with 20 other people all mixed in together. The first thing i would think would be to look at the condition of the body or bones. As ripped into as Mary Kelly unfortunately was there would've been some marks on ribs, spine, leg bones, etc right? I mean that would help a little i'd think. I guess what i'm trying to say is i feel badly about all these years no one visits her that's one of her people known to be one of her descendants. She may have a great great many times great grand daughter that's the spitting image of her. Breaks my heart that victims don't get visits or anything. I know how cheesy it sounds but i would think a visit from her people would warm her spirit

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