Limerick, the Key?

[Debra A]

22 Aprile Maria, Filia, Leg. Joannis Kelly et Anna McCarthy

22nd April baptised the legitimate daughter of John Kelly and Anne McCarthy

This baptism was in Ballyagran, a village in Limerick. The village is one mile from the Cork border. I couldn't find a registration district of Castletown in Limerick but there was a Castletown registration district in Cork. The SB says Castletown District of Limerick though, so has the border changed somewhere along the line? Or have I just not found the right Castletown district?

[Debra A]

This seems to confirm that Ballyagran was in the Castletown Registration District, Limerick anyway:

Placename, County, Civil Parish, Poor Law Union, Registrar's District, Lewis
Ballagran town Limerick Corcomohide Croom Castletown Lewis
Ballingarry town Limerick Ballingarry (Connello) Croom Castletown Lewis
Ballinruane Limerick Kilmeedy Croom Castletown Lewis
Ballyagran Limerick Corcomohide Croom Castletown Lewis

https://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/plu/index.cfm?fuseaction=rdtownlands&rdid=493&REGISTRARS_DISTRICT=Castletown

[Debra A]

There was certainly an Anne and John Kelly in Ballyagran in the early 80's, not necessarily a couple. There's a John in court records getting fined pennies for letting an ass wander into the public highway and one in dog licence records, registering his black or brown terrier, depending on the year. One Anne sent someone on an errand, trusted with money and he didn't come back!..
Amazing the trivia you can find but not the answer to something like 'was this MJK's family?'

[Robert]

http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/Ballyagran/textBallyagran.htm

Debs, I think their marriage was in Ballyagran in 1855, and I'll let your eyes
decipher the writing.

[Debra A]

http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.o...Ballyagran.htm

Debs, I think their marriage was in Ballyagran in 1855, and I'll let your eyes
decipher the writing.

Hi Robert
Thanks for that.
When I mentioned the Anne and John that weren't necessarily a couple, I meant the ones in the court records, as I didn't want people to think we had a criminal couple here-letting an ass wander into the road and trusting someone on an errand! I just meant there were still people of those names in the same place in the mid 80's.

[Paddy]

How about these?

From Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915

Name: Maria Kelly
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Apr 1864
Baptism Place: Ballyagran, Limerick and Cork, Ireland
Diocese: Limerick
Father: Joannis Kelly
Mother: Anna McCarthy

Pat...... Sorry just noticed its the one you mentioned above.....

[Paddy]

Although this family are interesting....

From 1861 census I am sure that this is the Mary Ann Kelly that is named as a prostitute in the 1881 stepney workhouse infirmary records.....
I also think sister Amelia was in Newington (Southwark) as Emily later..And possible two brothers in Bethnal Green....Also father was John Born 1819 same area but has either died or left....In one census they lived in Half Nicholl Street but cant remember which one

Pat...............

[SuspectZero]

So I dug deeper on this and here is what I've found:
In the 1881 UK Census, Catherine Mitchell is shown as the Aunt of one Mary Kelly, age 18, and a housekeeper by profession.

Catherine was born in 1831 in Ireland (don't know what part yet) and was the daughter of Patrick Kelly (Laborer). She married John Mitchell on 10-2-1852 and was married to him until he disappears by the time Mary shows up in the Census. He probably died. Could this be one of the relatives of Mary Kelly that were suggested as living in London? The residence location of Catherine in 1881 was Shoreditch.

So now the trick is to locate Catherine's brothers. One of them spawned the niece of Catherine - the Mary Kelly of the 1881 Census. If one of them is a John, that makes things more interesting.

So does anyone feel like having a go at this or do you consider it a dead end?

[Paddy]

Theres a Catherine Kelly baptised 2 April 1835 in Newry, Down and Armagh.......Daughter of Patrick Kelly and Mary Mullen

and a John Kelly baptised 17th June 1830 in Newry, Down and Armagh son of Patrick Kelly and Mary Mullen?

Not sure how long Catholics wait to baptise after birth though as Catherine seems late....No other children that I can see.......

Pat........

[Paddy]

Apologies for post 307 above.

I found there was a John (the father) on the 1861 census after all....They lived at no 8 Pear Tree Court, St Leonards, Shoreditch

He was John Kelly aged 43 born in Bishopsgate and was a Carman as were his older two sons John and James......

Pat..........

[Debra A]

Here's a list of other possibles. Marys/Marias born and baptised in Limerick County between 1855 and 1865 (before statutory registration in 1864) whose father was named John:

Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1858 Mungret Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1853 Mahoonagh Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1855 Glin Limerick Joanne Ellena
Mariam Kelly 1859 Croagh Limerick Joannis Honora
Mary Kelly 1853 St. Mary's, Limerick city Limerick John Johanna
Mary Kelly 1854 St. John's, Limerick city Limerick John Eliza
Mary Kelly 1855 Knockany and Patrickswell Limerick John Margt
Mary Jane Kellaher 1865 St. Michael's, Limerick city Limerick John Bridget
Mary Kelly 1862 Kilbehenny Limerick John Mary
Mary Kelly 1865 Ballylanders Limerick John Mary
Mariam Kelley 1861 Cahirnorry Limerick Joannes Honora
Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1862 Bruree Limerick Joaquin Maria
Maria Kelly 1863 Killeedy Limerick Joannis Maria
Maria Kelly 1864 Ballyagran Limerick, Cork Joannis Anna

[Debra A]

http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.o...Ballyagran.htm

Debs, I think their marriage was in Ballyagran in 1855, and I'll let your eyes
decipher the writing.

Hi Robert
Re. John Kelly and Mary McCarthy:
I could only find these children for that couple in the christening records of Ballyagran, which have been mentioned before by others:

William 29 May 1862
Maria 22 April 1864
John 26 April 1866
Peter 30 Jun 1868
Alice 30 July 1871

With the marriage being 1855 (and I think you definitely have the right one) I'm sure there would be more children born to them between the years 1855 to 1862? I wonder if there are a large chunk of records missing for those years?

[Debra A]

From Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915

Name: Maria Kelly
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Apr 1864
Baptism Place: Ballyagran, Limerick and Cork, Ireland
Diocese: Limerick
Father: Joannis Kelly
Mother: Anna McCarthy

Pat...... Sorry just noticed its the one you mentioned above.....

No worries Pat.
Were you able to find any more children of John and Anne born/baptised in Ballyagran between 1855 (their marriage year) and 1862 when their son William was born?

[Debra A]

Here's a list of other possibles. Marys/Marias born and baptised in Limerick County between 1855 and 1865 (before statutory registration in 1864) whose father was named John:

Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1858 Mungret Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1853 Mahoonagh Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1855 Glin Limerick Joanne Ellena
Mariam Kelly 1859 Croagh Limerick Joannis Honora
Mary Kelly 1853 St. Mary's, Limerick city Limerick John Johanna
Mary Kelly 1854 St. John's, Limerick city Limerick John Eliza
Mary Kelly 1855 Knockany and Patrickswell Limerick John Margt
Mary Jane Kellaher 1865 St. Michael's, Limerick city Limerick John Bridget
Mary Kelly 1862 Kilbehenny Limerick John Mary
Mary Kelly 1865 Ballylanders Limerick John Mary
Mariam Kelley 1861 Cahirnorry Limerick Joannes Honora
Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1862 Bruree Limerick Joaquin Maria
Maria Kelly 1863 Killeedy Limerick Joannis Maria
Maria Kelly 1864 Ballyagran Limerick, Cork Joannis Anna

I started using the parish names listed here to check for men named Kelly, born in that particular parish, who were serving soldiers in 1888 (any regiment)
The first hit I had was for a John Kelly born St Mary's Limerick in 1861.
He was a driver in the Royal Artillery and served 12 years in the colours from attestation in 1880, in Limerick.
In his army records, John originally gave his next of kin as his father Patrick Kelly of Thomasgate Limerick. Further in the records are the notes that he married Annie Maria Marchant in Woolwich in 1886 and on checking that marriage entry in the London marriages for March 26th 1886, 'John' gives his name as James John Kelly and his father's name as James Kelly, a pork butcher.
But whatever his father's name it doesn't appear to have been John.
I'll do some others when I get time.

[GUT]

Thanks Debra.