One Kelly family, in Wales.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Warspite

Have you actually been reading the thread? The Brymbo connection has been decisively eliminated.

All the best

Dave

[WARSPITE]

Hi Jen,
Sorry if im years behind anyone, but i was reading Chris Scotts book again the other day "Will The Real Mary Kelly", and was wondered if anyones photographed the possible sites of the Kelly families in Flint and in Brymbo; its just round the corner from me.
Pete

[Jenni Shelden]

sorry ill move along

[Debra A]

Is this not the Uncle Jack Mary Kelly?

Post #31, Jenni.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

Thanks for that. It seems that whatever lead is followed with regard to MJK leads to the same place - nowhere!

Regards, Bridewell.

On a positive note-it's a couple more off the list, Colin!
Both Brymbo Mary and Llanelli Kelly were traceable right into the twentieth century as maried women-that's somewhere in my book.

[Jenni Shelden]

ps the Brymbo one married a man and was still alive in 1891 - i cant recall the man's name right now - Griffiths i think

[Jenni Shelden]

Is this not the Uncle Jack Mary Kelly?

[Chris Scott]

Don't forget that Barnett - the sole source for nearly all the alleged info we have about Kelly - did NOT say that her real name was Mary Jane Kelly. If we take in tandem Barnett's statements and early press reports the story that emerges is that Mary Jane Kelly is the name by which she was known in the locality by her neighbours and acquaintances. Barnett however in his inquest testimony is quoted as stating as follows:-
"Her name was Marie Jeanette Kelly with the French spelling as described to me. Kelly was her maiden name."
This contradicts the assertion - for which there is no corroboration at all - that the Marie Jeanette form was an affection adopted by Kelly after her sojourn in France as reported by Barnett.
Barnett's accounts clearly imply that his lover's real name was "Marie Kelly" and NOT "Mary Kelly."

[Bridewell]

Hi Debs,

Thanks for that. It seems that whatever lead is followed with regard to MJK leads to the same place - nowhere!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

The oldest school in Llanelli is claimed to be the Copperworks school, founded in 1847. On 28th June 1876, Mary Jane Kelly (17) daughter of Edward Kelly, a Copperman born in Ireland, married William Morgan in Swansea. She's about 4 years older than MJK was claimed to be. I guess she might be the Swansea Kelly referred to in the article which, while it may (or may not) be journalistic speculation, is at least contemporary. I'll do a bit of digging at a more civilised hour.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hi Colin-before you start doing a shed load of work on this, to save you some time-
The story posted by Simon refers to a girl named Abi or Aby Kelly and Paul Begg has written about her in The uncensored facts. There's a lot about it on the boards, both here and on How's site that might help you too.

[Bridewell]

Hi All,

This angle has been gone into with a fine tooth comb, but might be useful for those playing catch-up.

Western Mail
12 November 1888

"Our Swansea reporter writes:-

"The very name of Whitechapel is regarded with such general loathing that one might expect it would be cautiously avoided as a topic of conversation. The news, however, of the sixth (or seventh) murder in this vicinity furnished by the papers on Saturday was a subject more freely canvassed than any other at Swansea, and there was, of course, a good deal of speculation as to whether the police would this time be too many for the wily perpetrator. The subject exerted the more interest on it coming to light during the day that the murdered woman Kelly was for some time a resident of Swansea. She was, I am informed, born in a house near the National Schools, Llanelly. She came to Swansea, and entered the service of a Mr and Mrs Rees (the latter being the daughter of the late Dr Hopkins, of Carmarthen, and now awaiting her trial for murder) where she remained for about six months. She afterwards lived at Swansea, and her morals became more questionable every day. She is described as a fine, well built girl.

"Our reporter made inquiries at Cardiff Police station, in order to discover if the unfortunate woman was known to the police. He was informed by Mr Hemingway (the head constable) that he had no recollection of anyone answering the description of the victim, and that so far as he was aware, the woman had not come under the notice of the police."

Regards,

Simon

The oldest school in Llanelli is claimed to be the Copperworks school, founded in 1847. On 28th June 1876, Mary Jane Kelly (17) daughter of Edward Kelly, a Copperman born in Ireland, married William Morgan in Swansea. She's about 4 years older than MJK was claimed to be. I guess she might be the Swansea Kelly referred to in the article which, while it may (or may not) be journalistic speculation, is at least contemporary. I'll do a bit of digging at a more civilised hour.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Wickerman]

And as a final comment, if Hubert is described as "deceased", I'm done with this line of enquiry, I promise

...and thanks to the kind efforts of both Paul & Debs, I can equivocally "see for myself" that the marriage certificate does describe Hubert as "deceased".

This line of inquiry (sadly) appears to be terminated.
Regards, Jon S.

[RivkahChaya]

Although Barnett does specifically state that "Kelly" was her maiden name, we might seriously need to abandon this line of inquiry.

Regards, Jon S.

I always wondered why she would use her maiden name, if she'd been married and widowed. How common was that? It seems we have divorced women still using their former husband's names, why wouldn't a widow do so?

I'm highly suspicious of "Kelly" being her last name at all, particularly if there was even a small bit of truth to the idea that she'd run away from an employer with whom she had a contract she had not fulfilled.

[Debra A]

I had not seen our 'Brymbo' Mary carrying a middle name, don't we just have Mary Kelly?, neither Ann nor Jane?

In the 1871 census 'Brymbo' Mary is listed as Mary A. Kelly.

Also something not mentioned earlier; in 1871 the parents of the Griffith Jones who married Mary Ann Kelly in 1886 were living in Lodge Brymbo the same as the Kellys.

[Cogidubnus]

Anyone might think you don't feel appreciated, well rest assured my dear your efforts are very much appreciated.

I'm sorry Jon...I've read that...thought about it...shrugged my shoulders...gone away...thought about it some more and come back...Like I say...sorry, and whilst probably you didn't mean it that way, it does sound very patronising or condescending... pat on the head for the clever little girl etc...I'm anxious not to cause offence to anybody on Casebook, but to my ears at least, that's what it sounds like...perhaps I'm being a little oversensitive...

All the best

Dave