Kellys in the Scots Guards

[lynn cates]

papers

Hello Debs. Just checked "The Times." Not found. I suppose I must try another paper?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Just checked "The Times." Not found. I suppose I must try another paper?

Cheers.
LC

Sorry, here you go, Lynn.
Posted by Pinkerton on casebook

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=53979&postcount=7

[lynn cates]

news story

Hello Debs. Thanks. Looks like "Lloyd's Weekly."

It sounds like Barnett may have gotten the story from Mary. As Garry says, Barnett never claimed to have met him personally.

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

The version I recall, Lynn, involved Kelly being visited at Miller's Court rather than during the period that predated her relationship with Barnett. There is also the issue of the correspondence received from Ireland. The overwhelming likelihood to my way of thinking is that this emanated from her soldier visitor - another indication that he was not a family member as claimed by Kelly. Unless, of course, he was a little busy during the week in question and simply forgot to tell the rest of the family that Mary Jane had just been butchered by Jack the Ripper. As you do ...

[lynn cates]

boyfriend

Hello Garry. Thanks. You are suggesting that the correspondence came from this boyfriend? If so, then to deceive Barnett, I suppose it would require a fake signature and address?

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

Garry, wasn't this claim made by Barnett during a newspaper interview?

Possibly.

In the same article Barnett also said he couldn't remember the name of Mary's husband and that her father had also visited but Mary had kept out of his way?

Since I only learned about the alleged visit by Kelly's father relatively recently, the piece you have cited couldn't have been one of those I used when writing my book in the mid-Nineties. There must be other sources out there somewhere.

[Garry Wroe]

Hello Garry. Thanks. You are suggesting that the correspondence came from this boyfriend? If so, then to deceive Barnett, I suppose it would require a fake signature and address?

From what I recall of Barnett's newspaper interviews, Lynn, I very much doubt that he ever read these letters.

[Archaic]

re: Mary's Father

As far as I can recall, it isn't known for certain that Mary Kelly's father knew that she was working as a prostitute, is it?

Women who fell into that lifestyle often fibbed to their families back home, assuring them that they were working as a respectable "milliner's assistant" or something.

Mary might have avoided her father when he came looking for her for this very reason; she couldn't bear for him to know the truth. Even if he came because he wanted to take her home, that isn't proof that he knew the full truth.

Does anybody have any further information that might clarify this issue?

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic

[Carol]

I don't know if this is of any interest to anyone but I used to work as a teaching assistant for the last seven years before I retired. One of the boys was half-Welsh (his mother). His name was spelt Ioan. As we're in Sweden you can imagine the various pronunciations of his name - poor lad. One day I asked him how his name was really pronounced and he said 'YO-AN'.

Carol

[Carol]

I didn't know that Mary's father had come to see her either. I think I learn something new practically every time I visit Casebook (at least it seems so)!

Could it be that the Kelly family had already decided to emigrate to America and her father had come to see her to try and persuade her to come with them.

Could it be that the family knew about her 'way of life' and this was the final chance for them to try and 'turn her around'.

Carol

[Debra A]

Since I only learned about the alleged visit by Kelly's father relatively recently, the piece you have cited couldn't have been one of those I used when writing my book in the mid-Nineties. There must be other sources out there somewhere.

There are other versions in different newspapers. In some it is an interview given by Barnett, in others it is a 'full statement' given by Barnett-the statement mention might mean it was something revealed at the inquest?

[Carol]

Just to bore you all further:

Robert (Janto) Johnston, passed away suddenly on January 4.

09 Oct 1920 - THE GREAT LAKE FATALITY. INQUEST ON THE ...
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11495638
Block all trove.nla.gov.au results
Tho clothing,was identified by Martin Mul- lins as having belonged to a male known as "Jonto" Johnson,

Enniskillen Rangers Football Club was founded in 1953. Rangers have won fifty trophies in their 52 year history making them the most successful local team in the Fermanagh and Western.
Managers
First Team Billy Reynolds
Reserve Team Gareth 'Jonto' Johnston

JOHSTON Andrew (Jonto). 4th July -in memoriam.

Hello Debs!

I must say I admire your tenacity - and your seemingly unlimited energy!

Just like to say 'thank you' for all your hard work.

Carol

[Garry Wroe]

As far as I can recall, it isn't known for certain that Mary Kelly's father knew that she was working as a prostitute, is it?

Again, though, Archaic, we only have Kelly's word that the man who came looking for her really was her father. Personally, I think that this may be yet another of Kelly's fairytales.

Had it been true we would have to assume that Mr Kelly knew that his daughter was living in the East End under the name of Mary Kelly. So why did he not come forward when the news of Kelly's murder reached him and other family members?

Much like the visit of Johnto, it makes no logical sense.

My guess is that neither Kelly's father nor brother (if she had either) had any idea as to her whereabouts and had thus never visited her as claimed. In fact I doubt that her family name really was Kelly, which would explain why no family member or pre-London friend or acquaintance recognized her from the biographical information carried by the press at the time of her death. If I'm correct, any search for the Miller's Court victim under the name of Kelly is destined for failure. I'd like nothing better than to be proved wrong, but I don't see it happening.

[Garry Wroe]

There are other versions in different newspapers. In some it is an interview given by Barnett, in others it is a 'full statement' given by Barnett-the statement mention might mean it was something revealed at the inquest?

I wish I could be of more help, but I honestly cannot recall the relevant source. All I can tell you is that I endeavoured wherever possible to cite the most reliable information, so you may be on to something with respect to the inquest reports. Sorry.

[Debra A]

Hello Debs!

I must say I admire your tenacity - and your seemingly unlimited energy!

Just like to say 'thank you' for all your hard work.

Carol

Thanks, Carol.
I was just interested to see that there is a nickname Jonto and it is connected to a certain surname-Johnston/Johnson as I wondered earlier.

I'm a bit fed up now to be honest and my posts seem to be about as welcome as a fart in a lift lately anyway. So I might have a little rest for a while now.
Nice talking to you though.