Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Debra A]

My goodness!, the conjectural barometer climbs to new heights...

The context of the claim is that, Kelly's father's name was John, her brother Henry was known as John too! (Johnto), .....Henry John Joseph Kelly.

How more simple do we need this to be..

Regards, Jon S.

Where do you get Henry John Joseph from?

He was Henry, his commrades in the Scots Guards called him 'Johnto'..that's all we have.

[Debra A]

So Henry Johnstone was her lover then?

[Garry Wroe]

My goodness!, the conjectural barometer climbs to new heights...

If you wish to continue to regard every word uttered by Kelly as gospel truth, be my guest, Jon. Thusfar, however, this is an approach that has failed signally to identify Kelly and locate her immediate family. The issue is eminently straightforward: the soldier who visited Kelly at some point during 1888 was either her brother or he wasn’t. If the former, how did the combined resources of the police and press fail to locate him? If the latter, all of the regimental and parochial searches in the world will never find him because his name wasn’t Henry Kelly. So far from scaling new conjectural heights, I am simply exploring what for me is the far more plausible alternative that Kelly was less than truthful with regard to her soldier ‘brother’. But then, given your previous track record, I shouldn’t really expect you to understand the fundamental principles of historical research.

The context of the claim is that, Kelly's father's name was John, her brother Henry was known as John too! (Johnto), .....Henry John Joseph Kelly.

See what I mean?

How more simple do we need this to be.

Evidently a great deal simpler given your confusion concerning Henry John Joseph Kelly.

[lynn cates]

Barnett

Hello Richard.

"Is it not conceivable that the Joe,.. Kelly was fond of, was the person serving in that regiment, and Barnett was told that it was her brother Henry[ rather like being caught with a member of the opposite sex by a partner, and introducing them as a cousin.]"

If so, then either:

1. Barnett was confused about not having met him.

or

2. Lying.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

stone

Hello Debs. Hmm, "Johnstone"; "Morganstone"? Nah.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

visit

Hello Garry. I don't recall the brother's visit in 1888. Can you direct me to that?

Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

So Henry Johnstone was her lover then?

This is precisely my point. If Kelly really did have a brother named Henry who went under the name of Johnto, such information becomes irrelevant if her soldier visitor was a fancy man rather than a family member. His name may have been Dick Splash for all we know. If so, no amount of Henry, John, Thomas or Kelly combinations will ever lead to his identification.

[Debra A]

This is precisely my point. If Kelly really did have a brother named Henry who went under the name of Johnto, such information becomes irrelevant if her soldier visitor was a fancy man rather than a family member. His name may have been Dick Splash for all we know. If so, no amount of Henry, John, Thomas or Kelly combinations will ever lead to his identification.

It was a joke.

[Garry Wroe]

Hello Garry. I don't recall the brother's visit in 1888. Can you direct me to that?

Not specifically, I'm afraid, Lynn. My memory no longer has the flypaper quality it once had, so I tend to become confused over sourcing issues. I suspect, however, that the soldier's visit arose during Abberline's questioning of Barnett.

[Garry Wroe]

It was a joke.

I gathered as much. But prevention is better than cure.

[Garry Wroe]

Hello Richard.

"Is it not conceivable that the Joe,.. Kelly was fond of, was the person serving in that regiment, and Barnett was told that it was her brother Henry[ rather like being caught with a member of the opposite sex by a partner, and introducing them as a cousin.]"

If so, then either:

1. Barnett was confused about not having met him.

or

2. Lying.

Barnett never stated that he met 'Johnto', Lynn. He said that Johnto had visited Kelly. The greater likelihood to my mind is that the visit occurred during the daytime whilst Barnett was at work, and culminated with a drinking spree in the East End. Thus it is perfectly plausible that the visit occurred and that Barnett never saw the visitor.

[Debra A]

I gathered as much. But prevention is better than cure.

Personally, I don't see the harm if that's what people choose to research.

[Garry Wroe]

Personally, I don't see the harm if that's what people choose to research.

Each to their own.

[lynn cates]

Et tu?

Hello Garry. Yes, I am victim of that same phenomenon.

Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Not specifically, I'm afraid, Lynn. My memory no longer has the flypaper quality it once had, so I tend to become confused over sourcing issues. I suspect, however, that the soldier's visit arose during Abberline's questioning of Barnett.

Garry, wasn't this claim made by Barnett during a newspaper interview? In the same article Barnett also said he couldn't remember the name of Mary's husband and that her father had also visited but Mary had kept out of his way?