Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Archaic]

Hi Debs. I was going to attempt to spell "Ianto" phonetically () when I realized it was probably easier to find a recorded version of it online.

So here it is at this link: http://www.forvo.com/word/ianto/#cy

The pronunciation is similar to that of the name "Ian", but with a Welsh accent is does come out sounding somewhat like a softened version of "Yanto", almost like "I-yanto".

All versions of the name John have recognizable similarities. Your idea to look for Johnston or Johnson is a good one.

Garry's idea is of course a possibility, but didn't McCarthy send Mary's things to her brother?

The problem with disbelieving every aspect of everything is that we'll be left with - well, nothing.

Personally, I prefer to keep an open mind and work on.

Best regards,
Archaic

PS: Another thought occurs to me, which is that though the Welsh with their soft accent pronounce "Ianto" or "Johnto" one way, that's not to say that their English friends didn't pronounce it and spell it somewhat differently.

[Carol]

If Mary Kelly spoke with an Irish or Welsh accent then her pronunciation of the letter 'o' would be completely different from a Londoner's pronunciation.

Carol

[lynn cates]

why?

Hello Garry.

"I suggested long ago that he may have been yet another of her fancy men, and that she simply misrepresented the relationship in order to pull the wool over Barnett's eyes."

Well, given that Barnett had never met her siblings, what need was there for this? If he had met a boyfriend named Johnto and she claimed him for a brother, would not he have stated at inquest, "I met Johnto only one time"?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

PS: Another thought occurs to me, which is that though the Welsh with their soft accent pronounce "Ianto" or "Johnto" one way, that's not to say that their English friends didn't pronounce it and spell it somewhat differently.

That's what puzzles me though, Archaic. Do the Welsh pronounce Johnto the same as Ianto? The welsh do have a 'J' sound surely? And there's no evidence Johnto is a version of Ianto is there?

I agree with you about MJKs story. Nothing wrong with checking it out collectively at all, even if others feel it's been done to death. We aren't asking anyone to fund us on Find my Past to do it are we?

[Cogidubnus]

Seán T. Ó Ceallaigh

Hi Debs

http://www.forvo.com/word/se%C3%A1n_..._ceallaigh/#ga

Switch on your speakers and Listen to this one...Johnto?

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Lol...too late to shove in the URL now, Dave!
I googled it and yes, definitely echoes of Johnty if not Johnto!

[Cogidubnus]

I thought I'd caught it before anyone read it...rats!

Sometimes Debs you're far too quick off the mark!

All the very best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

About 4.00 am?

Just to make you think of Millers Court, try putting this through Forvo...(then maybe consider who might just've come across the scene?)

Máire

Interesting...

Dave

[Debra A]

Just to make you think of Millers Court, try putting this through Forvo...(then maybe consider who might just've come across the scene?)

Máire

Interesting...

Dave

Jim O' Taggart?...sorry

[Debra A]

Jonto and Johnston

Just to bore you all further:

Robert (Janto) Johnston, passed away suddenly on January 4.

09 Oct 1920 - THE GREAT LAKE FATALITY. INQUEST ON THE ...
trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11495638
Block all trove.nla.gov.au results
Tho clothing,was identified by Martin Mul- lins as having belonged to a male known as "Jonto" Johnson,

Enniskillen Rangers Football Club was founded in 1953. Rangers have won fifty trophies in their 52 year history making them the most successful local team in the Fermanagh and Western.
Managers
First Team Billy Reynolds
Reserve Team Gareth 'Jonto' Johnston

JOHSTON Andrew (Jonto). 4th July -in memoriam.

[Garry Wroe]

Well, given that Barnett had never met her siblings, what need was there for this?

You've lost me there, I'm afraid, Lynn.

If he had met a boyfriend named Johnto and she claimed him for a brother, would not he have stated at inquest, "I met Johnto only one time"?

He might have done had he been asked. He certainly told reporters that Johnto had visited Kelly at some point during 1888.

It's really quite simple. Although Kelly was living with Barnett, she had clearly tired of him and was seeing other men - the two Joes, for example. If she had then met and fallen for Johnto, the two may have arranged to meet again in London come Johnto's next period of leave. This would explain the letters from Ireland (whilst her family were presumably still residing in Wales) and the need to concoct a **** and bull story for Barnett's benefit. It may also go some way to explaining why she expressed a desire to 'go back to her people in Ireland', despite the fact that 'her people' were living in Wales and she hadn't set foot in Ireland for twenty years or so. If this scenario holds true, Johnto's real name would not have been Henry Kelly, which also explains why Kelly's 'brother' was never traced among the regimental records.

[lynn cates]

brother

Hello Garry. Thanks. Well, at least we can agree that there was no brother named Henry/Johnto.

But my point is that she had no need to concoct such a story for Barnett's benefit. Of course, IF he had seen her with a man, she might then have explained him as her brother. But at inquest he claimed NOT to have met any of her siblings. So making up such a story would seem redundant.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

My goodness!, the conjectural barometer climbs to new heights...

The context of the claim is that, Kelly's father's name was John, her brother Henry was known as John too! (Johnto), .....Henry John Joseph Kelly.

How more simple do we need this to be..

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

interpolation

Hello Jon. Very well, but if you interpolate the rest of the phrase, "known amongst his comrades as" it flows much less well.

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
This thread is running amok, it is absolutely clear that no match to Henry Kelly can be found serving in that battalion during 1888, implying that the wrong name was given ie brother henry[ as told to Barnett], that being the case it would explain why the Kelly picture sent to Chris Scott has a picture of Henry seated, photographed in the USA.
He was never in the army...
Is it not conceivable that the Joe,.. Kelly was fond of, was the person serving in that regiment, and Barnett was told that it was her brother Henry[ rather like being caught with a member of the opposite sex by a partner, and introducing them as a cousin.]
If Mrs McCarthy indeed did parcel up , and send to a reluctant soldier, who was identified by the nickname Johnto, and the regiment, one can imagine he would be just as mortified about possible career prospects, as well as any brother.possibly more so, as he was intimate with a White-chapel prostitute, where as a brother would have a more sympathetic response.
The mystery continues..we have now a authentic family photograph [ possibly?] but none of the brothers having served in the army...
Regards Richard.