The ALLEGED photograph of the Kelly family

[Cogidubnus]

Not sure if there's anything in it, Bridewell, but if there is, credit it to Bridie and Livia...It's their lateral thinking after all!

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Certainly

Not sure if there's anything in it, Bridewell, but if there is, credit it to Bridie and Livia...It's their lateral thinking after all!

All the best

Dave

Indeed. Hope it leads somewhere!

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Dave. Thanks. One notes the Gaelic spellings, eg, in my recently purchased book on the Phoenix Park murders. Did not know there were those in the 19th c.

Cheers.
LC

[Semper_Eadem]

So, we have a Mary Jane madden, in or near three places Mary Kelly was reported to be living.. Interesting, as I said in earlier posts perhaps the reason Mary was never found was because Mary Jane Kelly's real name was not Mary jane Kelly. But you all know this or suspect it. I do wonder about Mary J Madden?

SE~

[Livia]

I think we're jumping the gun a bit here. The owner of
the picture vaguely remembered that Mrs Bridget Kelly's
maiden name might have been Mazudon or
Mazudron. The closest approximation I could find to this
name was Matudain, which when Anglicized becomes
Madden. Dave found another site that suggests the
name might translate to Madigan. Those are the best
guesses we have at the moment. Until we turn up a
marriage record or a child with Madigan or Madden
for a middle name, that's all they are.

Chris, would you please ask the family if they know
of any locations where Bridget and John Joseph
lived in the US? With so many John and Bridget Kellys, no
birth years and so few children's names to work with,
and the possibility that both or either may have died
soon after arrival, it's proving difficult to find them. I
checked one cemetery in St Louis Missouri and there
were over 40 Bridget Kellys who had died between 1890
and 1923.

Thanks,

Liv

[Livia]

Not sure if there's anything in it, Bridewell, but if there is, credit it to Bridie and Livia...It's their lateral thinking after all!

All the best

Dave

Kudos to Mr Poster too. His knowledge of the Gaelic alphabet
and pronunciation was the key.

[Chris Scott]

I think we're jumping the gun a bit here. The owner of
the picture vaguely remembered that Mrs Bridget Kelly's
maiden name might have been Mazudon or
Mazudron. The closest approximation I could find to this
name was Matudain, which when Anglicized becomes
Madden. Dave found another site that suggests the
name might translate to Madigan. Those are the best
guesses we have at the moment. Until we turn up a
marriage record or a child with Madigan or Madden
for a middle name, that's all they are.

Chris, would you please ask the family if they know
of any locations where Bridget and John Joseph
lived in the US? With so many John and Bridget Kellys, no
birth years and so few children's names to work with,
and the possibility that both or either may have died
soon after arrival, it's proving difficult to find them. I
checked one cemetery in St Louis Missouri and there
were over 40 Bridget Kellys who had died between 1890
and 1923.

Thanks,

Liv

Hi Liv
I really don't know how much help, if any, this is going to be.
I have contacted the lady who sent these pics to me and she replied that the only place name she has where the family lived in the USA after they emigrated is NORTH POINT. She apologises for lack of more info and does not even know what state of the USA this is in.
Chris

[Livia]

Thanks Chris and please extend thanks to the lady too.

It's a start.

Liv

[Livia]

Three hits for North Point:

North Point, Jackson Co., Indiana

North Point, Mason, Ohio

Northpoint, Redding, California




Also possibly a small section of Greenpoint informally called North Point, in Brooklyn, NY.

[David Knott]

Interesting that John Kelly, 50 year old Labourer at Iron Works near Cwmavon is living with a Mary Maddon on the 1881 census.

[jason_c]

Three hits for North Point:

North Point, Jackson Co., Indiana

North Point, Mason, Ohio

Northpoint, Redding, California




Also possibly a small section of Greenpoint informally called North Point, in Brooklyn, NY.

Brooklyn and Ohio are maybe more obvious places for Catholic Irish immigrants?

[Archaic]

Ironworks?

Three hits for North Point:

North Point, Jackson Co., Indiana

North Point, Mason, Ohio

Northpoint, Redding, California

Also possibly a small section of Greenpoint informally called North Point, in Brooklyn, NY.

I was thinking about which state might have had a significant iron industry in the late 19th C., since Kelly's father was stated to be "the foreman of an ironworks" in Wales. Presumably he would want to live in an area where he could pursue his trade, especially since he seems to have been successful at it. (By the way, the term "ironworks" refers to the mills and furnaces that processed the raw materials from which iron was produced.)

Ohio had a significant iron industry throughout the 1800's, but it waned towards the end of the 19th Century, primarily because it had depended upon wood-based charcoal and the forests became depleted.

Redding, California is interesting in this context because rich deposits of iron ore and copper were discovered there, and production peaked in the 1890's-1920 period.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

North Point, Maryland

There's also a city called North Point near Baltimore, Maryland.

The Baltimore area was an important commercial hub in the late 19th C. It had extensive railroads and shipping, so perhaps it also had an ironworks?

Best regards,
Archaic

PS: I just did a little searching, and apparently the Baltimore area had some of the oldest and most extensive ironworks in America.

[Cogidubnus]

Interesting that John Kelly, 50 year old Labourer at Iron Works near Cwmavon is living with a Mary Maddon on the 1881 census.

Now that, David, really is interesting...

Dave

[Livia]

Hi Chris,

If it would not involve too much hassle on your part,
would it be possible to cut the portion of the family
picture that contains the fiddler and post it next to
the picture of James Kelly, Broadmoor escapee and fiddle
player, on this thread?

And if it's not asking too much, also the picture of James
Kelly as an old man next to the elder Mr John Kelly?

Might make for an interesting comparison.

Both pictures of James Kelly are in Tully's book,
Prisoner 1167. I can scan them and send them
to you if that would help.

Thanks,

Liv