The ALLEGED photograph of Mary Jane Kelly

[sgh]

Thanks for posting this photo, Chris.
Just did a quick study of the image in photoshop to try and reveal a bit more detail in the region of the hair.
At the moment I agree with miss marple's comment that the hair doesn't look European from what detail I can extract - a higher res image scan should reveal better detail to confirm.
MJK has notable locks as seen in the hideous crime scene photo yet I can't detect those here !

Steve

[Monty]

Hi Chris,

Exciting stuff, many thanks to the family and yourself for this.

Personally, whilst I hold a note of caution, I'm very positive. Having studied THAT photo (during my youth I add), there are certain points of similarity that I can see, however I'm no expert.

I agree with Rob, information on a photographer would be beneficial, or a location.

Do we have any hints where Kelly was in 85 or there about?

Monty

[Debra A]

I don't tend to go on instinct but have to admit when I first saw this photograph I felt that it could be Mary Kelly. There's just something about it.

Sally, yes...I know exactly what you mean.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
I have the whole family pic but that is the one thing the donor is still adamant she wants held back
Chris

Thanks Chris, do you think there's a resemblance to any other family members in the group photograph yourself?

[The Good Michael]

The jawline is similar to that of the victim in the murder photos. The contemporary sketch of Kelly also has similarities to this photo of the very young woman. If this is Kelly, it means the sketch wasn't far off... just an older, stouter young woman.

Mike

[Chris Scott]

Thanks Chris, do you think there's a resemblance to any other family members in the group photograph yourself?

That's what make me hesitant - the 7 members shown in the family pic show (except Henry) marked similarities but I cannot see any of that in this alleged picture of Mary
Chris

[Bridewell]

Hello All,

This girl isn't just pretty. She's beautiful to my eyes. I know it's perverse after all this time, but part of me doesn't want this to be MJK. How odd is that?

Regards, Bridewell.

[curious]

Hello All,

This girl isn't just pretty. She's beautiful to my eyes. I know it's perverse after all this time, but part of me doesn't want this to be MJK. How odd is that?

Regards, Bridewell.

I agree. She looks young and vulnerable. I wouldn't go beautiful, but vulnerable, almost tentative.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris,

May I please add my thanks for this information and the photo.

Practically, questions must be asked.

If the photo was taken in 1885, what was her age?
The family would know the names of all the siblings. Do THEIR ages match up with any known facts with 'our' Mary? Are they all older?
IF they are all older, were they all living at home in 1888 when the family emigrated?
Did EVERY family member emigrate?
Where in Ireland did they live?
For a seemingly so close knit and devoted family, why didnt anyone contact the police and identify THEMSELVES as a relative, let alone not turn up at the funeral.
I also note that we have not heard why, with knowledge that people have risen a gravestone for Mary a few decades ago, now is the time to claim knowledge of 'Mary Kelly' and not at some time in the past? Why now?

And how many family members SINCE have known about the 'truth' re Mary? For with so many siblings, the family 5 or 6 generations along would likely be enormous- yet nobody has breathed a word for 124 years?
The story is equally, if not more important than the photograph, imho.
Not being dismissive- am respectfully looking for supporting evidence etc.

Kindly

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris

Not having seen the group photograph showing the sister Bridget that you mention, I have no opinion on whether that rules this photograph out as being Mary Jane Kelly. However, let me say that this photograph is not inconsistent with the supposed well-known newspaper representation of Mary Jane Kelly in Miller's Court, shown below, albeit that the drawing is probably conjectural. We know that sisters or brothers don't always closely resemble each other, so, on that basis, it's not inconceivable that the woman in this photograph and the image of Bridget that you say is unlike her could be siblings, is it? The question is whether you are satisfied that the family information you have been given is consistent with it being the family of the woman who was murdered in Miller's Court.

Best regards

Chris George

[jason_c]

The jawline is similar to that of the victim in the murder photos. The contemporary sketch of Kelly also has similarities to this photo of the very young woman. If this is Kelly, it means the sketch wasn't far off... just an older, stouter young woman.

Mike

Yes. The jawline does have certain similarities. It's hard not to project my hopes into "imagining similarities" between both photos though.

[Archaic]

Is There A Studio Signature?

Hi Chris. Thanks so much for all your hard work, care, and diligence to bring us this photo!

I hope you will convey our gratitude to the family for having so generously shared it.

I agree with many of the comments. The woman looks very young and girlish (maybe about 19 or so?) and she is quite beautiful.

Although there is a question as to whether Barnett said "hair" or "ear" (and hair seems the most likely), it seems to me that she has quite small ear lobes and her ear has a "horizontal-diagonal" appearance rather than being quite as "vertical" as the average ear.
(Sorry, I don't know the proper 'forensic ear' terminology to use.)

Might I ask if the border or reverse of the photograph bears the name of the photography studio which produced it?

Is there any inscription on the back, such as a name or a date?

Do you know the dimensions and format of the photograph?
The size and format of the photo can be an important clue as to its age.

Thanks again,
Archaic

[Jeff Leahy]

Purported photo of Adelaide Bartlett :

http://www.luminous-lint.com/app/vexhibit/_THEME_19thc_Murders_01/4/0/0/

"Mary's" face seems to have no make-up on it, which is odd given that the hat is expensive.

Different nose different mouth.. Jeff

[Sally]

I think the sketch looks a bit more like Bridget, personally - agree that the jaw looks similar.

[bolo]

Hello Chris, all,

many thanks for posting the photo.

For the last two hours, I've been browsing the web for pictures of 1880s and 1890s ladies fashion. There's some Edwardian vibe around the alleged Kelly picture, I think that's mainly because of the hat with peacock (marabu?) feathers. Most of the pictures that come close to it are from the 1890s but I've found some from the 1880s with women wearing wide-brimmed hats as well.

Not that this would mean anything, mind you.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to new details on the picture you have posted.

Thanks again,

Boris