new information: Arthur Mac Donald and the MJK scene photo

[lynn cates]

surely

Hello Maria. Surely (umm, Don't call you Shirley? heh-heh) Sounds interesting.

Speaking of research, Dr. T now has page 2 of the October 12 AF. Hope to get the results shortly. Poor Chris Phillips deserves a medal for patience.

Cheers.
LC

[Rob Clack]

Here's the Bertillon picture, Maria mentions.



Rob

[Luke111]

Hi, Im quite new on this Forum . Could anyone here give me a brief overview on this topic? Thansk, that would be great

[mariab]

Shirley ;-), can I email you around mid next week? Need to prepare a bit first.
Great for p. 2 of the AF, and congrats to Chris Phillips (what did he do?).

An endless thanks to Rob for posting the Bertillon pic of the assailant of president Roosevelt (on whom Mac Donald wrote a long article in Lacassagne's periodical Archives d'anthropologie criminelle). And how clean does it look after Rob did his magic on it! Someone was telling me the assailant looks a bit like a young Anthony Hopkins...

Luke, just check posts #1, #3, #13, and #26 on this thread, and visit the link to the 2 old threads mentioned in my post #26.

[Errata]

An endless thanks to Rob for posting the Bertillon pic of the assailant of president Roosevelt (on whom Mac Donald wrote a long article in Lacassagne's periodical Archives d'anthropologie criminelle). And how clean does it look after Rob did his magic on it! Someone was telling me the assailant looks a bit like a young Anthony Hopkins...

Ahhh... I thought it was an article on Guiseppe Zangara, the guy who shot at the OTHER Roosevelt. So I was picturing him very young in 1892. This makes sense now.

[Roy Corduroy]

Outstanding, Maria with Rob's assistance

Could anyone here give me a brief overview on this topic?

Luke, the crime scene photograph of Mary Kelly appeared in a French book in 1894. Up until now it's been a mystery how they had it.

It is known Arthur MacDonald had inquired to British officials to see the Whitechapel murder files but was denied permission. (Thanks Stewart for posting up the official document) But somehow he did gain possession of the photo. Because in the letter Maria found, Macdonald offered the photo in exchange for publishing his manuscript in book form. Which is what happened. A trade off.

Roy

[Errata]

I'm still curious as to how Lacassagne and Co. vetted the photo. Was London not letting anyone see the photo or not letting anyone have a copy? And if it was the former, how did he know he was getting the real thing and not some other random gruesome crime scene? Would the police verify the photo for him? Did he throw his student under the bus and have him publish it to see if someone from London demanded to know where he got it?

[mariab]

Maria with Rob's assistance

In my personal experience, Rob's assistance is pretty close to having superpowers.

I'm still hoping that someone (SPE?) chimes in and tells us when was the exact date Mac Donald approached the HO for the first time, if known. The second time, asking for a HO letter allowing Dr. Bond to talk to him, was Sept. 26 1892. He was in possession of the letter on Sept. 8 1892. Willing to bet that his first HO approach occurred in early September 1892.

[Archaic]

MacDonald and Bertillion

Hi folks.

The only reference to Bertillion in 'Criminology' is a brief mention of an anthropomorphic study he conducted regarding the color of the irises of criminals.

"Lombroso, with the aid of Marro, finds as to the hair (comparing 500 criminals with 500 normal men) that the incendiaries and thieves reach the maximum (57 per cent) for black hair; the violators the minimum (23 per cent); the idlers, highway robbers, and thieves attain the maximum for brown hair. The violators and swindlers form the majority of the blonds. Dark hair (black and brown) is predominant among criminals in general, as compared with normal men, in the proportion of 49 per cent to 33 per cent; light hair (blond and red) in the proportion of 16.5 to 6.85 per cent. Marro among 507 criminals found 10 per cent, with little hair, 44 per cent. with thick hair, with a maximum of 53 per cent. In vagabonds, 47 per cent, in assassins.
From 4,000 criminals Bertillion finds 33.2 per cent. with brown iris; 22.4 per cent. with a dark brown; 32.4 per cent yellow or red iris. While it is true that many of these characteristics are often seen in ordinary men, yet the large jaw, the masculine appearance of the women, bad look, projecting ears, strabism, thick hair, and receding forehead are much more frequent in criminals."

I don't know if Bertillion and MacDonald were personally acquainted, but MacDonald discussed Bertillion's methods of measurement and identification in greater detail in some of his later books.

Best regards,
Archaic

[claire]

I think it's perfectly possible that MacDonald had the photo in hand when he made his official approaches. If he'd had it from Bond (or elsewhere), on the QT, then it makes sense he would then, post hoc, try to get official permission as that would make wider publication so much less problematic (particularly for the supplier!).
Intriguing stuff, whatever the case

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

A couple of things.

I notice that MacDonald doesn’t actually state that he has the Kelly photograph just that he has “a photograph of one of the worst victims of Jack the Ripper.” Not THE worst victim but ONE OF the worst. This phrase, arguably, could also be used to describe the photo of Eddowes that also appeared in Lacassagne’s book.

MacDonald’s book Criminology was published, as Stewart has shown, by Funk & Wagnalls, New York, in 1893. MacDonald’s book Le Criminel-type dans quelques formes graves de la criminalité was published by Storck, Lyons, also in 1893. These were not the same book.

Criminology has very little on the Whitechapel Murders, also as has been shown by Stewart and Archaic, while Le Criminel-type has thirteen pages on the Ripper, pages 186 – 199, found in Chapter IV, La Sexualité Anormal, and also engravings of three of the six men covered in that chapter: Subject “J,” unnamed and “inconnu du public” on page 137; Subject “K,” Jesse Pommeroy, on page 175 and Subject “L,” known only as Piper, le casseur de têtes, on page 181.

MacDonald lists eleven victims for the Ripper: the canonical five plus a woman murdered on 1 December, 1887 (presumably “Fairy Fay”), Martha Tabram, Alice McKenzie and the three torso murders. Most of MacDonald’s chapter La Sexualité Anormal ended up in Lacassagne’s book and can be found in Chapter XI, Les Crimes Sadiques. Two of MacDonald’s engravings also ended up in Lacassagne with the engraving of Jesse Pommeroy on page 268 and the one of Piper on 270.

Wolf.

[mariab]

2 different books by Mac Donald published in 1893

I notice that MacDonald doesn’t actually state that he has the Kelly photograph just that he has “a photograph of one of the worst victims of Jack the Ripper.” Not THE worst victim but ONE OF the worst. This phrase, arguably, could also be used to describe the photo of Eddowes that also appeared in Lacassagne’s book.

Wondered about this possibility myself, but I find it much more plausible that the first photo obtained by Mac Donald was MJK1, since it was the one published just 1 year later in Lamoureux's thesis. The Eddowes photo was published much later, in Lacassagne's book in 1899. I suspect that Lacassagne obtained the Eddowes pic from the same source as Mac Donald did.

MacDonald’s book Criminology was published, as Stewart has shown, by Funk & Wagnalls, New York, in 1893. MacDonald’s book Le Criminel-type dans quelques formes graves de la criminalité was published by Storck, Lyons, also in 1893. These were not the same book.
Criminology has very little on the Whitechapel Murders, also as has been shown by Stewart and Archaic, while Le Criminel-type has thirteen pages on the Ripper, pages 186 – 199, found in Chapter IV, La Sexualité Anormal, and also engravings of three of the six men covered in that chapter: Subject “J,” unnamed and “inconnu du public” on page 137; Subject “K,” Jesse Pommeroy, on page 175 and Subject “L,” known only as Piper, le casseur de têtes, on page 181.

Thank you SO very much for clarifying this and making us notice, Mr. Vanderlinden!
Very stupidly I didn't even notice that the book cover posted by Mr. Evans listed “Funk & Wagnalls, New York“ as a publishing house instead of “Adrien Storck, Lyon“, nor did I notice that the excerpt from the same book (chapter on JTR) posted by Archaic was in English instead of French! (Happens to me frequently that I remember text content without remembering in which language it was written.)
Thus, good to know that Arthur Mac Donald's Le criminel type dans diverses formes de criminalité did contain other engravements apart from the MJK scene photograph. This is an important detail to know and ponder about, and it corroborates my suppositions.
Does Le criminel type dans diverses formes de criminalité feature a Preface by Lombroso, like Criminality? I've read part of the original manuscript in Lyon, in not yet published form. It was in English, before the translation by Henri Coutagne took place. (And I really hope to remember the last part correctly!) ;-)

[Errata]

Out of curiosity, why do you think that Lacassagne had the original as opposed to a copy of the photograph?

I was also under the impression that there was a fair amount of rivalry between Lacassagne and Lombroso. If MacDonald was a student of Lombroso, why do you think he decided to take his business to Lacassagne?

[mariab]

Errata, obviously we are talking about a print of the photo. The original plates for MJK1 were located in London by Don Rumbelow, as far as I know.

As I've already pointed out, citing the sources which corroborate this, there was NO rivalry whatsoever, but an active collaboration and personal friendship between Lacassagne and Lombroso. I suspect that it was Lombroso who directed Mac Donald towards Lyon. The letter by Mac Donald I've located discussing the MJK photo was written while Mac Donald was in Turin, with Lombroso. It's a fair assumption that Lombroso knew about it all.

[Errata]

.
As I've already pointed out, citing the sources which corroborate this, there was NO rivalry whatsoever, but an active collaboration and personal friendship between Lacassagne and Lombroso. I suspect that it was Lombroso who directed Mac Donald towards Lyon. The letter by Mac Donald I've located discussing the MJK photo was written while Mac Donald was in Turin, with Lombroso. It's a fair assumption that Lombroso knew about it all.

I knew they were friends on a personal level, but I had thought their respective schools and academic activities were in competition. But my question was less about MacDonald's perceived loyalties, but more concerning the transaction. I would have assumed that MacDonald would have offered the photo to his mentor first. Which would imply that Lombroso passed on it. Which given Lombroso's theories on criminal eugenics, is kind of surprising. I was more curious if you think there was a shopping around process, or if Lacassagne had a known interest in these crimes, or if possibly the photo was obtained for the purpose of trading it with Lacassagne.

I ask because it seems that in the normal course of academia, Macdonald would have obtained the photo, and would have collaborated with Lombroso, incorporating it into an article or deriving a new theory from it. Which didn't happen. So since this is your bag, I was just wondering how you saw it going down.